| Poll |
| Chainsaw's Razor Atonement Petition |
| Yes |
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11% |
[ 6 ] |
| No |
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88% |
[ 47 ] |
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| Total Votes : 53 |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:23 |
 
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Rules are rules. However, pease read the entire message before voting 'yes' or 'no'. Despite the jovial nature of this thread, there is a more serious issue underlying it.
There are exceptional circumstances on rare occasions, and I believe this is one of those few occasions. So I have brought about the Chainsaw's Razor Atonement Petition (aka C.R.A.P.) appeal in order to gain community support.
Having not played BB since I was a kid, I was more than slightly rusty when I found fumbbl a few weeks back. Given my tender age when discovering BB, back then I don't think we even adhered to all the rules or even knew about them all, especially the one I fell afoul of here.
Despite my rustiness, and relearning the game on an ad-hoc in-play basis, I somehow managed to acquire an amazing Razor. In the space of 35 matches this guy has entered the all-time top 10 ranked orc scoring chart. He was the fulcrum of my side.
He got injured and picked up a niggle at the same time I retired my two other most experienced players who both had NIs in order to bring down my absurdly high TR. With a high TR and low TS, I took a game against a side of similar TR. It was relatively even, a 1-1 draw, only it transpired his team was more than 40 TS higher than mine and subsequently wouldn't upload. Rules are rules, so frustrated, I took another game.
I don't turn down many games, and don't thoroughly research my opposition looking for reasons to avoid them. This team had a few claw players, a DP, and with my side having only 10 starters and Razor on mng, Nuffle took no pity. With the assist of a few fouls the Chainsaw were down to 5 men on the field, 3 KOs, 2 BH, and an apothecrised SI. It was turn 6 of the first half. The opposite coach was fouling every turn, was not scoring, claiming, "I want to win and make lots of SPP!" I digress, but back on point it was messy and with more than half the game left there was little hope of escaping without risking mass injury and death. So, for the first and only time, I conceded. Yes, I conceded. I thought the winnings, FF decrease, and SPP were worth losing. I had no idea you risked losing star players too. A message pops up, "Razor has left the team." Wha'? WHAT?
Had I known there was the remotest possibility that the main man, my BB pride and joy, might leave then I'd have never conceded and fought on until the bitter end. The only way I was prepared to lose him was either as a Legend or in glorious death on the field. If I was playing TT, and been told about the roll, I'd have begged to take back the concede before rolling that die.
You know where this is going.
The poll question is, if you were an admin would you reinstate Razor if I asked?
Considerations:
- This is not a direct support request. I have brought this to the attention of anybody other than this forum. I bring it up for discussion and opinion. Perhaps it should be that a coach is allowed to concede once without star-player-leaving-rolls and then given a stern warning about this rule applying to future concedes.
- I feel I add to the BB community. A lot of my players have well written bios and I've written some truly magnificent match reports on more than half the games I've played.
- I don't care about losing. Or TR. Or TS. Or CR. Or any other stat other than having fun. Razor's path to the top 10 was bloody and brutal, no molly coddling or weak opponents and certainly more losses than victories.
- This is a genuine lack of fine BB knowledge under pressure whilst tired in-game whilst my team was being slaughtered. This is not, "I'll just concede and whine if I lose my star guy." Really, I had no idea it could happen.
- I have already adjust his bio to the past tense.
- He was going to break records.
- Now I know the rule, I agree with it, because it really massively discourages conceding. As said, I would not have conceded had I known. I will most likely never concede a game again.
- I take on hard games, all the time. I don't say no to opponents. I'm not some cherry picker whining because his perfection has been blemished.
- I won't start insulting people because I lost my best player, nor deluge the admins with sob stories of how hard done by I am. This is a great free service and I only bring this up in the fumbbl spirit of mutual fun.
- I play exciting BB. Most of the games I've played, the opponent has commented on how fun the game was. Perhaps everybody is polite, but I feel it's more down to me not playing dirty, boring, or bad BB.
- I won't stop playing or create a new side just because my star player is down.
- I even played a game against a tougher opponent beforehand that was refused. Razor should have been playing and the slaughter less, er, slaughterful. Nuffle was conspiring against me!
- I've been penalised for not knowing the rules inside-and-out. There's a lot of rules, and whilst they hold the fabric of BB and fumbbl together, it's asking a lot for somebody newish (given how long it was between playing TT and fumbbl for me, ~15 years) to be sharp on all of them.
I was going to create a multitude of options, but this falls down to a 'yes' or 'no' issue so I left it that way. Please, if you have an opinion, express it. I put a lot of time into the team and for it to be severely dented over a genuine error is, to say the least, a little harsh in my book.
So, like I say, I'm not asking officially (yet) because I want to know whether it is something other players would support. After reading my heart warming, tear jerking tale of loss, if you had a little 'reinstate Razor' button to press, would you? |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:33 |
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I can really understand your problem.
But to play BB online you should legally own a tabletop BB, so here ppl assume you know the rules.
Tbh I don't think you will have your player back. The main reason is that if Razor is unretired, many will just use the same argument "I didn't know" to have their players back, too.
And maybe it's true, but if this becomes a regular habit among newcomers, nonetheless it is against the rules.
I wish your team the best, but try to forget Razor, and most of all follow my advice: don't-get-too-attached-to-players. If you love them too much, it spoils fun when you get a bad game. Love the team, not the stars in it.
Jan |
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xlars
Joined: May 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:34 |
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I voted no. Because rules are rules. There could however be a warning when you conceade or something like that. But if you get your player back what is next... "Oh a player can die on a GFI, then thats not what I intended" Doesnt matter if you really didnt know or tried to cheat.
/XL |
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Smurf team in Stunty leeg! |
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Wallace
Joined: May 26, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:36 |
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Sure it's unfortunate, I feel your pain, but there's no way your player could, should or will be re-incarnated. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:38 |
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Jan: I own TT BB. We used to play all sorts of variations on the rules and I don't remember ever really conceding or (if somebody did) making those star player rolls.
xlars: Perhaps I should have emphasised the exceptional. Dying on a gfi or a dodge is not an exceptional circumstance as that's a really common thing. Doing something out-of-play related for the first time that you didn't know could cost you a player is different. |
_________________
Coach Chainsaw's Dugout
Free Gamer - blog - community |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:39 |
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Can't make any exceptions. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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StarBreeze
Joined: May 17, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:41 |
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Sorry for you Chainsaw  |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:44 |
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TBH this is the response I expected.
Personally I think a warning needs to be built into the client. I had no warning, no way of knowing, without revising the full set BB rules before hand. |
_________________
Coach Chainsaw's Dugout
Free Gamer - blog - community |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:44 |
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In a nelson way: Ha-ha!
Really, you do realize why it is impossible to make an exception in your case?
Good.
Good post, full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing. |
_________________
My post count
Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:46 |
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MrMojo: I realise why it's "not acceptable" to make an exception.
What do you mean signifying nothing? Is that a compliment on a lack of abuse whilst expressing strong feelings? |
_________________
Coach Chainsaw's Dugout
Free Gamer - blog - community |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 12:52 |
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Oy, read you shexspear better. |
_________________
My post count
Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so. |
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Direwolf
Joined: Jun 22, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 13:01 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | | The poll question is, if you were an admin would you reinstate Razor if I asked? |
My answer is no. But I have to explain why, I fear..
There is no way for an administrator of a community as big as this one to be just and fair. There is simply no way.
The only way to beheve, is to strictly apply the rules, being conscious of the fact that someone, somewhere will be treated unfairly by the rules themselves (as it can't exist a law that is fair for everyone).
So there is not a "fair" way to resolve your issue. They could be unfair to others and reinstate razor or they can be unfair to you and don't reinstate him.
As I have already said to you privately, I feel that you are a great player and I like the way you play and write very much. I have actually a half idea of going to Mezir's place, hitting him hard over the head and reinstating your player after having hacked his CPU.
But if i were to do that "officially"... i wouldn't do that.
| Chainsaw wrote: | | Perhaps it should be that a coach is allowed to concede once without star-player-leaving-rolls and then given a stern warning about this rule applying to future concedes. |
THAT one I totally agree. I am finding that lots of people here don't know about the "retiring star when conceding" rule.
I feel that such an important rule should be much more emphasyzed.
| Chainsaw wrote: | | Personally I think a warning needs to be built into the client. I had no warning, no way of knowing, without revising the full set BB rules before hand |
THAT one still more important!!!!
Regards |
Last edited by Direwolf on %b %12, %2005 - %13:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 13:07 |
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Uhm I suppose if they'd accept that, then there should be a whole host of players
latins said dura lex sed lex
he's gone. Nuffle bless him |
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Tommi
Joined: May 17, 2004
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Sep 12, 2005 - 13:10 |
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Well, your orc had some sense of honor in him, you should learn from his decision: never concede. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 12, 2005 - 13:14 |
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After an unfortunate accidental retirement of a player I discussed the feasibility of unretirement with some admins. They assured me that it was nott echnically feasible, even if they wanted to do it.
So I'll have to vote no. Even if I was an admin, I could not help you if I wanted to. |
_________________
Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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