nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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 Posted:
Apr 27, 2006 - 16:17 |
 
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only position I can understand some doubts is ag5 throwers, because of Strong Arm+Accurate (back on the field where they don't get blocked, just make the Long Bomb at 2+ for the touch)
...or AFK_Eagle's gutter blitzer with Horns and Dauntless, that's a monster that makes 2d blocks either way and can take Claw |
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Tallmaris
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
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Apr 27, 2006 - 16:55 |
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I had a rat-ogre that got +1ST, and died while blocking 'cos he had no block... I don't know, but the next time another big guy get double 6 I will think a lot about it... |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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Apr 27, 2006 - 17:51 |
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Here are some of my non-obvious reasons and counter arguments:
+ST adds passive defense to the player.
Sure, you could skip +ST on your Dauntless ST2 Gutter Runner and take Claw instead,
but ST3 Joe Shmo Lineman still gets 2 dice to knock down your prized star instead of 1 dice.
A +ST Rat Ogre dies on a Block and you remember it well.
How many times did that Rat Ogre NOT die because it DIDN'T get knocked down by the other team?
It is impossible to quantify that number, but it must still be considered.
+ST can cause the opponent to make mistakes.
Stat increases are one of the trickier things for coaches to notice and remember.
If a coach is rushed or distracted, they might not notice that their blitz against your +ST player is only 1 dice or worse.
I have seen this happen (and done it myself) way too much to ignore it as a tactical element.
Also, the reroll that they then desperately burn is less effective than it could be since it is rerolling a less advantageous number of dice for them.
+ST +ST can give you control over your opponent's actions.
I've noticed a remarkable effect when there is any player with 2x +ST increases.
Almost universally, the attention the other coach gives to that player becomes very polarized.
Depending on the opposing coach style, either the other team's players run away desperately
(usually when the +ST+ST has low MA like a Mummy or Treeman),
or they treat that player as priority target enemy #1 and devote significant attack power to it.
Either situation gives you a degree of control over the other coach and makes their actions more predictable. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Apr 27, 2006 - 17:59 |
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Man's got a point. Ol' Kevin (may he rest in peace), surprised opponents many times. I think the real key to Stat increases is to not let it FUNDAMENTALLY change the position of the player. Obviously some teams have little or no choice (Nurgle), but teams with positionals need to use the stats as a bonus, not a change. An AG+ blitzer used for throwing is a waste, as is a ST+ thrower turned into a blocker. Use the increase to ADD flexibility, not to change position or determine it. |
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slanter
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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Apr 27, 2006 - 18:21 |
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On most players +ST makes me want to convert the player into some kind of powerhouse.
The small chance to get +stats/doubles is one of the big reason why I don't specializes my players "to much".
E.g. getting accurate and strong arm on throwers is a sure way to roll 6+6!
On big guys or ogres in ogreteams it's a different matter. In a normal team st6 is a wonderfull distraction
which will be avoided or targeted, both being very good for the rest of the players.
A good BG will just walk next to the opponents and irritate with the "possibility of blocking",
having block will make you try blocks and roll bonehead/RS losing both the tacklezones and support. (1/6 is very close to 1)
Block is a lot better for Wild Animals, who both keep tackelzones and have frenzy!
On a developed ogreteam (se stupid-link below) it's a trickier choice between block and +ST.
I've picked +ST and many times wondered if block wouldn't have been better...
but considering that the opponents have block and that I usually get 3d anyways +ST might be better.
St6 breaktackle when you are able to use RR is a wicked thing indéed, not that I've used it much though.  |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Apr 27, 2006 - 18:38 |
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mhhh valdrek bloodgaze seems like a decent blitzer although he's a thrower 
| Macavity wrote: | | Man's got a point. Ol' Kevin (may he rest in peace), surprised opponents many times. I think the real key to Stat increases is to not let it FUNDAMENTALLY change the position of the player. Obviously some teams have little or no choice (Nurgle), but teams with positionals need to use the stats as a bonus, not a change. An AG+ blitzer used for throwing is a waste, as is a ST+ thrower turned into a blocker. Use the increase to ADD flexibility, not to change position or determine it. |
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amstar34
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
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Apr 27, 2006 - 18:53 |
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The comments above list a few valid reasons to not take +ST. However, they are limited to very specific instances and the alternatives are probably equal (not far better) to taking +ST. An equivalent option is still an option to be considered. As a general rule +ST won't be a bad choice that you will regret everyday, but sometimes rules ARE meant to be broken.
So this question will undoubtedly be asked again! |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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Apr 27, 2006 - 18:59 |
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| amstar34 wrote: | | So this question will undoubtedly be asked again! |
Not by me! NEVER! <shakes fist at clouds>
| xcver wrote: | | "Power without perception is virtually useless and therefor of no true value!" |
I am the true Fist of the North Star! |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Apr 27, 2006 - 19:25 |
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I just wanted to annoy Plorg. Other than AFK's choice or an all Ogre team, I can't think of a reason not to take +str. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Apr 28, 2006 - 10:13 |
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| slanter wrote: | | On most players +ST makes me want to convert the player into some kind of powerhouse. |
Well I always take +str, or better said, I never was in a situation were I didn't take +str.
Slanter, I followed your advice but my +str snotling doesn't look like to be a powerhouse. Why? |
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Gitzbang
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 28, 2006 - 10:22 |
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Actually i took Horns for my Dauntless Gutter instead of Str - never regretted it, especially when he aged -Str and now still Blitzes everybody with two dice instead of just being an ordinary Strength 2, Dauntless Gutter  |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:44 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | Well I always take +str, or better said, I never was in a situation were I didn't take +str.
Slanter, I followed your advice but my +str snotling doesn't look like to be a powerhouse. Why? |
So far I wasn't in a situation not to take the +ST either, but on a big guy I would take block (unless it's a tentacle & break tackle big guy, who actually has an additional benefit from +ST; but if it were a tentacle big guy, that would mean he rolled a double previously, which I would have allocated to block instead of taking tentacles...)
As for your snotling: That's obviously PBBL, so you should really be more concerned about the LRB4 purists pitchfork mob that's going to come for you shortly. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:57 |
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| Optihut wrote: | | On a big guy it is a tough decision - personally I would pick BLOCK instead of +ST on an ST 5 big guy. |
I would not. A ST6 guard is something your opponent can't move. Plus, you have 1/6 chance to roll another double for block, and 1/36 chance to roll another +ST. Plus, with ST6 you only need an assist to get three dice, so no block is not THAT bad. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:40 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | I would not. A ST6 guard is something your opponent can't move. Plus, you have 1/6 chance to roll another double for block, and 1/36 chance to roll another +ST. Plus, with ST6 you only need an assist to get three dice, so no block is not THAT bad. |
But even with 3 dice the odds of falling over on a block are higher than on a 2 die block with the block skill: It's 1 / 27 for the 3 dice and 1 / 36 for 2 dice.
Also, if the Big guy is standing next to an opposing longbeard, it doesn't matter whether he has got ST 5 or ST 6, the longbeard will still get a 2 die block with the big guy's choice when he blocks him. Since the longbeard only dodges with a 50% chance, his best odds are blocking the big guy:
ST5 Block Bigguy: 11% of knocking him down, 30% chance of the longbeard falling over
ST6 non-block Bigguy: 25% of knocking him down, 30% chance of the longbeard falling over, 45% push.
So the odds of knocking down your +ST big guy are almost as big as the odds for the longbeard going down, they're even higher with a reroll. A non-block big guy is simply too unreliable to have on the pitch. |
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Buur
Joined: Apr 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 28, 2006 - 12:44 |
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tentackles works wonderes on wa bigguys....
-Buur |
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