Riilthorne
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 20, 2003 - 02:06 |
 
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Hmm in my opinion if the opponent has 3 or less players you should still be trying to take them out.
I'm talking as an orc coach vs elves here. I have lost a number of times because it seemed 'mean' to keep beating on a team that had had unlucky amount of injuries... (my orcs focus on the ball then thump by the way - silly but...)
Then the AG 4 factor gives them a chance and they win or draw...
With the no fouling and no push off - I take it that people believe the same applies in Tournament divisions as well?
Then injurying other teams improves your chances....
For me if fouling or pushing off increases my chances of winning or drawing I believe I should do it or have it done to me. If I'm up by 2 TD's and it's Turn 7 or 8 thats another matter. No point being mean there.
The upshot seems to be that if there's no reason don't do it, if it helps you win do it. |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 02:59 |
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| Mr-Klipp wrote: | | If you let people off on this kind of play, they will continue to do it, and at some point that last minute "risky" play that really isn't because you are nice will cost you a game. |
Do people really not go for the win/draw in the last turn of the game because they're worried that their catcher will get crowded?
I don't think so... |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 04:01 |
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| Twahn wrote: | | Mr-Klipp wrote: | | If you let people off on this kind of play, they will continue to do it, and at some point that last minute "risky" play that really isn't because you are nice will cost you a game. |
Do people really not go for the win/draw in the last turn of the game because they're worried that their catcher will get crowded?
I don't think so... |
Again, that's fine if they don't. But they shouldn't expect to be able to make a risky, possibly game winning play without having to wory about the risk factor. |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 04:33 |
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Most people, I think, would be willing to take this risk to win a game. Any one who plays to win would do it without queastion, regardless of the risk.
The point is, given the fact that a good coach will be willing to do it anyway, the penalty that you're imposing on him for taking this action is completely spiteful and, I think, bad spirited.
You've got nothing to gain from it (except the dubious argument that you are creating an environment of fear that will stop teams from attempting this and enable you to win more games) and his player suffers a fair chance of permanent damage or death with no chance at apothecaries...
Bad form I reckon. It won't stop teams from trying to win, it'll just punish them for it. |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 04:39 |
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Most people, I think, would be willing to take this risk to win a game. Any one who plays to win would do it without queastion, regardless of the risk.
The point is, given the fact that a good coach will be willing to do it anyway, the penalty that you're imposing on him for taking this action is completely spiteful and, I think, bad spirited.
You've got nothing to gain from it (except the dubious argument that you are creating an environment of fear that will stop teams from attempting this and enable you to win more games) and his player suffers a fair chance of permanent damage or death with no chance at apothecaries...
Bad form I reckon. It won't stop teams from trying to win, it'll just punish them for it. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 20, 2003 - 04:44 |
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| Twahn wrote: | | Most people, I think, would be willing to take this risk to win a game. Any one who plays to win would do it without queastion, regardless of the risk. |
I'm not buying that argument. People are always carefull to keep risk in mind, especially in relation to sidelines, and that is what is intended. The sideline injury mechanism is designed to add a risk to these otherwise quite beneficial areas of the pitch, and if you want the rewards of using those areas you can't cry foul when you suffer the associated risks.
If a coach finds that everytime he makes that last ditch pass to the guy he put in the endzone people are more than happy to shove the guy in, he will have to consider that the small odds of making the play are not worth the larger odds of getting the player injured. Conversely, if he finds that he is not pushed in, he may as well always try for the play and occasionaly snag a win because of it. You can't have it both ways, if you want the benefits you have to accept the risks. |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 05:01 |
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Fair enough then. It doesn't particularly concern me really. I'm happy to let people play whichever way suits them. Moral judgements in a boardgame? Pah...  |
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EgorKDie
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 11:21 |
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If you are sitting on a sideline/in the endzone... expect to be pushed out. That way you won't be suprised when you are... Pushing is as much a part of the game as fouling or scoring touchdowns, it's in the rules for a reason. Fouling, pushing, etc is a mechanism for teams to keep up with Elves and Skaven. If someone fouls you on the last turn, with the game won or lost already, consider why... spite, possibly (Have you seen an Elf team NOT score a touchdown, cos they felt it was unfair to keep beating on the Orc team? No I didn't think so...), frustration, quite probably (If you've spent a game rolling ! or > on the dice), or because thats what these teams are about.
A good coach should consider the fluff for his teams as well as coaching... A team "crawling out of the deepest pits of hell, bringing death to the playing field" WILL foul at every possibility. A team which doesn't like getting it's hands dirty shouldn't.
What it really comes down to is people don't like seeing their players getting hurt... if you've spent 20-30 games getting your blitzer the way your happy, and someone fouls him for no reason (see above for LOTS of examples), you're going to feel abused. But think of the guy who you've just put 7 TD's past... Don't you think you've just abused him... this is difference between teams... it's part of the game... it's ALL part of the game!
Rant over. |
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Kasferatu
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 15:00 |
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Well it seems Mr. Klipp knows exactly where im coming from In the end, I wouldn't push the person off unless he had really ****** me off during the game. Some coaches really bug me.
Anyway, nice to see both sides of the argument  |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 20, 2003 - 16:05 |
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| EgorKDie wrote: | | If you are sitting on a sideline/in the endzone... expect to be pushed out. That way you won't be suprised when you are... |
Good advice. Unfortunate, but always expect it and decide if it's worth it. Never depend upon a favor, but always hope for it, I guess.
| Quote: | | (Have you seen an Elf team NOT score a touchdown, cos they felt it was unfair to keep beating on the Orc team? No I didn't think so...) |
Actually, yes. I have both seen and done this. Not throwing a game, but running a different play to try to get some SPPs on a rookie and give the poor clumsy orcs a chance to score. If I'm up 5-1, I don't mind pulling a few foolish plays to give them a chance at a turnover.
Consider it a combination of my version of sportsmanship and a defense mechanism. Give them the ball and a chance to scoresome SPPs and get a better FF roll and they will likely spend a little less time and energy on maiming you.
| Quote: | | A good coach should consider the fluff for his teams as well as coaching... |
You'll forgive me if I disagree with this a bit. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but all too often it's used as an excuse for some monolithic arseholery. "But I'm playing dwarves and they're grumpy!" "But I'm playing 'Zons and they're PMSing" "But I'm playing Norse and they're cold." "But I'm playing Undead and they only eat brains." Whatever....
| Quote: | | What it really comes down to is people don't like seeing their players getting hurt.. |
Every time I throw a block (or crowd a catcher or foul a PO/RSC monster), I hope to break armor. Every time I break armor, I hope for a BH. Naturally it doesn't work that way, but I hope at least some people will understand what I'm trying to get across and agree with me.
For those of you who don't get it, play tough, but there's just no reason to want to destroy your opponent's team in this league other than poor sportsmanship and possibly some deep seated issues with your mother and your bed-wetting habit. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 21, 2003 - 00:02 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: |
Every time I throw a block (or crowd a catcher or foul a PO/RSC monster), I hope to break armor. Every time I break armor, I hope for a BH. Naturally it doesn't work that way, but I hope at least some people will understand what I'm trying to get across and agree with me.
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Exactly. I want my cas just like you want your completions and TDs. All I want or need is a badly hurt so I get my spp and you get to sit in the box out of my way. If the dice are against you and those badly hurts keep coming up dead, well, I feel sympathy for you but thats the game, that's the way a bashy team has to play it, and I'll do the same thing next game around. |
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Darkwolf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 21, 2003 - 00:11 |
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Wow, Klipp and Mojo just summed up how I like to play BloodBowl. Like I said, I rather be pushed out of bounds than blitzed with a tackle/mighty blow guy. If I leave a player near the sidelines I expect to be 'boinked' into the fans no matter what turn or score it is. My expectations when I push a player into the crowd is a stun or KO max. Not intended to kill a star player without the use of an apoth.
Another way I show sportsmanship when I am beating a coach by a few td's is kick the ball in the corner of the endzone for a touchback. Give em the touchback to try to throw a pass for 1spp. Just sort of my own version of sportsmanship... |
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Delta
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 21, 2003 - 00:46 |
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I think it' quite simple....never...EVER....leave someone on the touchline/endozone if the other player will et the chance to push you out.
Unless it's worth the risk. Even more so if the other team has a player with frenzy.
As many others have mentioned in the past.....the game is called BLOODbowl. If you don't like it, then don't leave your players in that position. We all know the rules. If it is in the rules then live with it. Personally, if I play a team that has frenxy in it's midst, then I try not to leave a player within 2 places of the touch lines. It's a tactic.....it narrows the pitch..it's part of the game.
All that aside....doing it in t8 of the second half...well, that's part of the game also. (The less competition to some coaches...)
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psikobunny
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 21, 2003 - 02:02 |
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| Delta wrote: | (The less competition to some coaches...)
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I was under the impression I wanted people to play me more than once...
Being a dink to win a game is one thing, being a dink because you can is something else. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 21, 2003 - 19:43 |
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well said bunny - since most people keep a DNP list, tactics like that will eventually lead to a coach playing with himself. ) |
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