Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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 Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 12:22 |
 
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Hi,
I would like to submit the following to the Zons tactics section...does somebody official need to review & submit this?
FYI I am 15/4/5 overall for my 4 Amazon teams (I am also a relatively new FUMBBL player):
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=313671
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=307264
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=310578
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=311983
************************************
Amazon Strategy and Tactics - Advanced Additions For Newer Teams
LOS vs BASHERS
The key considerations here are whether or not the opposition has block/tackle, and your risk appetite.
If they DO have block, but not tackle, it can be useful to put your blitzers on the LOS - this will greatly reduce
the likelihood of a knockdown. However, any such knowckdown could be more costly! Therefore, for the risk-averse, keep
your blitzers safe.
If they DON'T have block or tackle, then it is usually fun to go with blitzers on the LOS. Many coaches get frustrated
when they 'waste' blocks on pushbacks, and will foten gang up/burn their blitz to finish the job! This is great
for you, as it detracts them from their overall strategy! The best of all is when you encourage them to use
their Big Guys, who are usually without block/dodge, to attack - there is a fairly good chance they'll end up downed!
Having said all that, if the opposition has TACKLE, keep your blitzers away - and alive!
BASIC(?) MATH
Sometimes doing less is doing more! This particularly holds true for Amazon teams, who thanks to dodge are superb
at defending blocks. With defending regular block there's only a 1/6 chance of your player alone going down! AND you have the possibility of a turnover!
Whereas if you block yourself, the possibility of failing doubles. When dodging, the chance of a fall is 1/9, but that will also lead to a turnover. Therefore, being blocked is less risky in many respects than either blocking or dodging.
So what?!!
So at the position on the field!
For example, let's suppose one of your players is rushing for the endzone with the ball, and your other players are supporting her
but in tackle zones. What to do?
It's tempting to try and dodge free of the opposition and run down to support the ball carrier. The logic being, by
dodging you restrict your opponent to a single blitz, and that will have to be on a covering Zon and not the ball
carrier.
However, consider what happens if you fail the dodge - your player goes down, ending your turn and opening up a line
to the ball carrier! Whereas if you stay put, your player gets blocked - so for starters the blocking player can do nothing else this
turn. They may even go down, ending their turn! Or a pushback (most likely), which still keeps your player in the way,
and then the blitz has to be burned on them!
However, we cannot be dogmatic with our decisions. Consider another position:
Your opponent is rushing for the endzone with a STR 4 player. You have one Zon who can make the blitz, but you
also have a Zon in a tackle a zone. What now?!!
Let's say you just blitz with one Zon - the chances of a knockdown are a tiny 11%. You'll push them back if
lucky, then they blitz in return, get at least a pushback and advance down field for the score.
What if you use your other Zon first? You dodge, which is 89% certain, move round to the endzone side of the
ball carrier, then use your blitz. Now the chances of toppling them soar to 33%, and even with a pushback you can
still end up with two Zons between them and the endzone.
In sum, look at the situation carefully - do not just action your players automatically!
THE BEST DEFENSE
The Zons should be capable of stopping almost any team, thanks to their combination of dodge for all, blodge for
blitzers and reasonable speed. Let's see how!
Rule Number 1 is the following - first visualize the position you would like your team to be in at the end of the
turn! This is the most difficult part and is what many coaches forget about.
How to do this? Well, look at it from the other player's perspective. Analyze how you would try to score if you were them,
and the situation should become clearer. We are all naturally better at exploiting weaknesses than covering them -
so use your brain from a different perspective!
Once you see that, we need to consider how to GET to that position. Inevitably this will involve some risk, and
this is where things get complicated. You must consider that something may go wrong, and attempt moves in such
an order that a downed player doesn't ruin your defense. This is tricky! Because, taking risk into account, your
optimum view of the end position will most likely need to change to a more 'realistic' one.
It's not the case that risk-free moves should always come before risk. In some situations, an open player may be required
in their starting position in case another player goes down, and they can't be moved until the outcome is clear.
In sum, don't be dogmatic! Consider what you want the shape to look like, then start moving toward that goal, one
step at a time. Assume every risk is going to fail! You will then create a very robust defense.
And remember, you don't always need to move players to be succesful! If a player has to block you, then they
can't do anything else that turn.
One more thing - the football can be thrown! If you're defending desperately and the football happens to be
fumbled, get someone in there and throw it away! This will costs your opponent a lot of time...
OFFENSIVE POTENTIAL
Here are the key points about attacking:
1) You don't have to go forward every turn! Keeping the football safe is your number one priority. If there is no
gap to run into, go sideways, stand still, or even backwards, to create more space on the field for your players!
2) Don't commit to a wing too early. Try to stay central until you cross the halfway line to force your opponent
to man both wings. Her blocking potential will then be much-reduced.
3) Use wide players to draw defenders away from the ball. Quite often an opponent will put two players on your
catchers to prevent the potential of throws - good! These players are doing a superb job if they enable you to
have a numerical advantage elsewhere on the field.
4) Don't throw the football!?? I have found that using tactic (3) coupled with sudden wing rushes is the most
stable way of scoring with Amazons, before you have real throwing and catching skills. You can head for a flank
once over halfway, with excellent support from your blitzers. This is a very safe way of scoring! I've used it
time and time again. And if the flank gets closed down, switch to the other one!
SUMMARY
Congratulations on your choice - you've opted for the best team in the game! And of course, you can populate your
team with stunning beauties - and then even your losing opponents will be happy to have played you!!!
 |
_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!"
Last edited by Hayati on %b %05, %2006 - %11:%Dec; edited 2 times in total |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 16:13 |
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The User Guide is a Wiki - i.e. anyone can contribute. The thing that's trickiest is getting used to the odd formatting tags the Wiki uses - to get an idea how they work, click 'Edit' on any of the existing guides (to get you started, prefix titles with 3(biggest), 2 or 1(smallest) exclamation marks, and put double underscores before and after test to make it bold).
It's probably best to edit the text in a word-processor (Notepad/Wordpad is fine) and copy/paste into the edit page when you're done. You could alternatively save in HTML format (Notepad and Wordpad don't add HTML tags, but other editors do), then use the application mentioned in the thread Software for editing Wikis (including the User Guide)
I believe the page in question already has content, so just add your own underneath with a new title (the Khemri and others have a similar arrangement on their tactics page).
Please read the stickies in this forum for guidelines on conventions (capitalisation of skills, spelling of position names, titling etc.) |
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Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 17:58 |
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Thanks for the info Colin, I have added my modest tips to the strategy guide.
Long live the Zons! |
_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!" |
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Russo
Joined: Apr 11, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 17:59 |
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Heheheh...you should wait and see your final position in the AFL and UFL before submitting this..might be egg on your face  |
_________________
BAAA means NO!
[21:35] <@Purp|away> why is it whenever I come to check the PC, Russo is lowering the tone?! 
================================
[22:59] <princevaliant> NBL has gotten to be such a dirty channel
[22:59] <princevaliant> ty Russo 
BiggieB is my idol |
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Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 18:02 |
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| Russo1 wrote: | | Heheheh...you should wait and see your final position in the AFL and UFL before submitting this..might be egg on your face |
As you very well know, I lost 2-0 to your Orcs because I disobeyed my own law about not commiting to a wing early!
Re the leagues, by doing everything wrong and coming last, I can be in an excellent position to expound on what NOT to do!
 |
_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!" |
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pragtyro
Joined: Aug 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 18:17 |
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| Prasomchai wrote: |
BASIC(?) MATH
...With defending regular block there's only a 1/6 chance of your player going down!
Whereas if you block yourself, or dodge to an open square, the possibility of failing doubles.
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Every form of math there is disagrees with you there |
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Zingr
Joined: Mar 14, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 18:30 |
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| pragtyro wrote: | | Prasomchai wrote: |
BASIC(?) MATH
...With defending regular block there's only a 1/6 chance of your player going down!
Whereas if you block yourself, or dodge to an open square, the possibility of failing doubles.
|
Every form of math there is disagrees with you there |
Not fuzzy math  |
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Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 04, 2006 - 18:35 |
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| pragtyro wrote: | | Prasomchai wrote: |
BASIC(?) MATH
...With defending regular block there's only a 1/6 chance of your player going down!
Whereas if you block yourself, or dodge to an open square, the possibility of failing doubles.
|
Every form of math there is disagrees with you there |
Amended it to say "..there's only a 1/6 chance of your player going down AND no turnover for the opposition"
Glad you spotted my deliberate mistake! Good student
|
_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!" |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 10:50 |
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| Prasomchai wrote: | | pragtyro wrote: | | Prasomchai wrote: |
BASIC(?) MATH
...With defending regular block there's only a 1/6 chance of your player going down!
Whereas if you block yourself, or dodge to an open square, the possibility of failing doubles.
|
Every form of math there is disagrees with you there |
Amended it to say "..there's only a 1/6 chance of your player going down AND no turnover for the opposition"
Glad you spotted my deliberate mistake! Good student
|
However the dodge is at 1/9 in proba and your own block is a 1/6 or 1/36 depending on your rerolls.
Btw, IMO some other things are missing: Skill ups, starting rosters. Your defense propositions are very general and not much zon oriented. Neither do you explain how to defend vs certain teams.
And last but not least: A "how to face dwarves" tactica would be a great plus! (in case you are no dwarf and/or tackler teams dodger -aka cherrypicker?-) |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 11:03 |
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I would love to have some tips on defeating dwarves ... it just doesn't seem to happen (especially when the dwarves have loads of mb/guard and DP).
Actually, i did manage to win against dwarves once ... but the other 3 games have seen me kicking first, and bashed silly by the end of the first half.
Oh, and tips against CDs would also be appreciated - they seem to be just as bad (possibly even worse when you have to face 2 ST6 bull centaurs). |
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We Fink Wer Orks
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Help save blood bowl, foul an elf today!. |
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cherry
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 11:16 |
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Tips vs chaos dwarves and dwarves: Just concede |
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Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 11:19 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: |
Btw, IMO some other things are missing: Skill ups, starting rosters. Your defense propositions are very general and not much zon oriented. Neither do you explain how to defend vs certain teams. |
Well, the tips section already has stuff on rosters and skill ups. I only added tips for things I did not already see up there.
As for defending, yes, some pointers are fairly general, but they also mainly relate to having the Dodge skill. That's why I put them in here. I also want Zon teams to win more!
It's a work in progress! So more specific information about playing each race will come later
| sk8bcn wrote: | | And last but not least: A "how to face dwarves" tactica would be a great plus! (in case you are no dwarf and/or tackler teams dodger -aka cherrypicker?-) |
I'll have a go at this later on in the week. I have a perfect record against Dwarves and am unbeaten versus relatively new Chaos Dwarves. My feeling is that they can be beaten at the starting team level, but it becomes very difficult once they have some skills/football players.
As my guide concerns new teams only, I will give it a shot!
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_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!" |
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Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 11:27 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: |
However the dodge is at 1/9 in proba and your own block is a 1/6 or 1/36 depending on your rerolls.
|
Yes, I'm going to check all the probabilities as I did think them up in somewhat of a hurry...never multi-task when doing Math!!!
|
_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!" |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 11:30 |
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i need tips for beating dwarves/chaos dwarves around the TR200-TR250 level. 
One thing I'd disagree with that is definitely zon-specific:
> LOS vs BASHERS
If the opponent has block, but no tackle, blodgers are great to put on the LoS. If the opponent has neither block nor tackle, put linewomen on the LoS (opponent will re-roll or suffer a turnover on both-down). If the opponent has block and tackle (and plenty of it), chances are your players are going to do down - put the cheapest possible players on the LoS, and protect the more valuable skilled/positional players.
Another tip: rookie linewomen are also great for tying up strong but skill-less players (especially big guys). |
_________________
We Fink Wer Orks
--------
Help save blood bowl, foul an elf today!. |
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Hayati
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 05, 2006 - 12:27 |
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PLAYING TO WIN AGAINST DWARVES
Offense
The key aspects here are speed and potential. Before we look at those, let's consider the general form of the offense.
First, as always, secure the football. Cover up the ball before you attempt to pick it up with around 3 players. You'll have plenty of time to move the football later on!
You should form a cage around the ball carrier with up to 6 girls. You don't really need too much depth at the sides as the Dwarves aren't quick enough to get round there! Also space them out with gaps between, as the Dwarves aren't going to be dodging inside! You should aim for a wide front with 3-4 players, with reserves at the rear to assist blocks/break free later on.
Set up two pairs of player on the wings, usually a blitzer and one other. These girls are going to spread out and give the team potential...
Now, you're all set - you can NOW try and dodge the LOS girls back a single square, or more if you desire greater ball protection. Move the ones you can afford to be prone first! If you can't afford that, leave them alone - they prevent their marker from moving towards the football.
Speed
Although you have a cage, it is a quick cage relative to your opponents! It will easily be able to speed to either flank - but don't commit until you're at the halfway line. One cunning option is to hold the cage way back in your own half until you see how the Dwarves are developing their defense...this also leaves more open space behind their front lines. And once the cage breaks for it (see below), you can use any spare girls to tie up the Dwarves by standing alongside them.
Potential
Your catchers should be spread about the field. This presents quite a dilemma for the Dwarves! They can either double mark them, in which case they'll find that they can't catch & break the cage well, otherwise they will not, in which case a throw will leave them stranded (see later).
Also, as the Dwarf coach will be blocking whenever possible, there will be inevitable turnovers and chances arising from those.
Strategy
You play a waiting game, carefully advancing your cage and then dodging/blocking with your catchers, until your opponent commits to their defensive stance - double marking catchers or blitzing. You also see how the play develops between your catchers and their cover.
If they double mark, use your cage to take the ball home. As you get closer to the endzone you can tie up front-line Dwarves by not moving your front-line ladies, and your catchers can fold back to trap the other blitzers. Your speed and dodge should allow you to score without too much trouble.
If they don't double mark, you need to throw! The best way to do this is to first charge your free cage members down the field (often starting with lateral movement). Then, move your throw laterally, to get a clear shot at a throw. Even if the ball is dropped, you'll have tackle zones all over it, and many players close by, whereas the majority of the Dwarves will be stranded by the remnants of the cage. The odds are that you'll score.
Summary
Make sure the game is strecthed and open and you will see how mind-numbingly slow the Dwarves are! It should be a simple matter to choose the right approach depending on what they do defensively. The odds are with you to score!
Important point - against Dwarves you're often better off blocking, especially with your blitzers, than standing, due to Tackle. In these situations try to get 2 dice blocks on the Dwarves. It's very frustrating for Dwarf coaches if they run up to exert pressure on your cage, only to be repeatedly bashed back to the floor!
The most important point is to realize that the Dwarves will be very uncomfortable about the flexibility of your team! Don't just think about Tackle, think about the many concessions the Dwarves suffer! Confidence really helps
Defense to follow... |
_________________
"Hear me now!
All crimes should be treasured if they give thee
Pleasure somehow!" |
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