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2016-01-21 17:14:53
14 votes, rating 4.4
14 votes, rating 4.4
Dwarfs in a box
So, I got a plan!
Im kinda sloppy when it comes down to positioning in the game, maybe thats why I favor elfs or slann, cause their mobility can very often repair bad positioning but sometimes im just way of. I have played this game now for a few years but I still gets caught beeing in the wrong Place at the wrong time. And the same goes for patiente, since I rather try to get the ball from the second it lands instead of waiting for the right moment.
So how can I fix it?
Well, how about play dwarfs and doing it for lets say, 100 games or so! With them u just have to stay in the right Place and the rush is just out the window.
The question about playing them in the long run is how to improve them and how to win when they get up in team value? At rookie level they are quite good but they lack pretty much Everything that u need to score td´s when they get further up, since all the other teams just outrun them.
So how can I play them and use their strenghts and still be able to score td´s?
I expect the deathroller and cards is the way to go. But, I will not get a roller until I get a 13 man roster so I dont have to use it at round 7 first half and it will be banned and then be outrunned the rest of the match. Cards will be quite effective if u use them at the right time. Dirty cards is a nice way to get a free shot at the ballcarrier at some Point during the game and magic cards should be good since they have great strenths and the negative effects, should be able to put on the roller, right?
Well, as soon as I get my Mount Rave Sledgehammers thrown out of the Royal rookie rumble, I gonna try.
So, do u have any tips or pointers except the obvious "dont do it!" please speak your mind :)
Im kinda sloppy when it comes down to positioning in the game, maybe thats why I favor elfs or slann, cause their mobility can very often repair bad positioning but sometimes im just way of. I have played this game now for a few years but I still gets caught beeing in the wrong Place at the wrong time. And the same goes for patiente, since I rather try to get the ball from the second it lands instead of waiting for the right moment.
So how can I fix it?
Well, how about play dwarfs and doing it for lets say, 100 games or so! With them u just have to stay in the right Place and the rush is just out the window.
The question about playing them in the long run is how to improve them and how to win when they get up in team value? At rookie level they are quite good but they lack pretty much Everything that u need to score td´s when they get further up, since all the other teams just outrun them.
So how can I play them and use their strenghts and still be able to score td´s?
I expect the deathroller and cards is the way to go. But, I will not get a roller until I get a 13 man roster so I dont have to use it at round 7 first half and it will be banned and then be outrunned the rest of the match. Cards will be quite effective if u use them at the right time. Dirty cards is a nice way to get a free shot at the ballcarrier at some Point during the game and magic cards should be good since they have great strenths and the negative effects, should be able to put on the roller, right?
Well, as soon as I get my Mount Rave Sledgehammers thrown out of the Royal rookie rumble, I gonna try.
So, do u have any tips or pointers except the obvious "dont do it!" please speak your mind :)
Comments
Posted by PurpleChest on 2016-01-21 17:29:23
'I expect the deathroller and cards is the way to go'
Do you? why? I expect any Dorf team with a deathroller to lose ALL the time and mainly amuse people. I am afraid you are utterly utterly wrong.
Do you? why? I expect any Dorf team with a deathroller to lose ALL the time and mainly amuse people. I am afraid you are utterly utterly wrong.
Posted by Harad on 2016-01-21 17:36:33
Guard and mighty blow, guard and mighty blow. This is my attempt to take dwarves to higher TV in the box:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=825733
You'll find better and Stonetroll has this alternative take and he'd be great to learn from watching some of his replays.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=684959
My overall thoughts are the need to keep things tight, move forwards and keep every dwarf involved. Too often I think people get carried away just with hitting.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=825733
You'll find better and Stonetroll has this alternative take and he'd be great to learn from watching some of his replays.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=684959
My overall thoughts are the need to keep things tight, move forwards and keep every dwarf involved. Too often I think people get carried away just with hitting.
Posted by CroixFer on 2016-01-21 17:47:06
I can see you mainly play ranked. I must tell you I find it hard for anyway to find for 100 games for a dwarf team in the gamefinder. I am pretty sure slann and woodies find games easily, but not dwarves.
I can predict long waiting hours from game to game.
If you want to better your positioning game, my advice would be to check what the best players around do by specting their games, either on-line as they play or reviewing the replays. That would be my advice. Dwarves will become a boring experience and finding games for them hard.
I can predict long waiting hours from game to game.
If you want to better your positioning game, my advice would be to check what the best players around do by specting their games, either on-line as they play or reviewing the replays. That would be my advice. Dwarves will become a boring experience and finding games for them hard.
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-21 17:54:25
Thanks for the replys :)
Well, I (hope) to use the roller on the offense and use one half to score. I MUST score and the roller is very usefull to move the opponents bigger guys, like black orcs, chaose warriors etc etc. Their biggest guys is easy to mark or stay away from but the roller is good for them to just in case.
And yes guard and Mighty blow is the first skills to put on almost everyone :)
And the Dwarfs is the black box already :)
Well, I (hope) to use the roller on the offense and use one half to score. I MUST score and the roller is very usefull to move the opponents bigger guys, like black orcs, chaose warriors etc etc. Their biggest guys is easy to mark or stay away from but the roller is good for them to just in case.
And yes guard and Mighty blow is the first skills to put on almost everyone :)
And the Dwarfs is the black box already :)
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-21 17:56:55
Yeah, I can check (and have checked and will prolly check even more) on other/better players but I think I need to force myself into position. Getting boring? Yes, I know since dwarfs are probobly what is the team that suit me the least hehe, and thats why I must play them :)
Posted by thoralf on 2016-01-21 18:03:02
Tarabaralla tried a few Death Roller cults, e.g.:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=705137
The main problem with a Death Roller in Box is the size of the investment compared to the importance of winning. In a CPOMB world, all menz are 7AV.
I'd consider it for tourneys or for leagues.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=705137
The main problem with a Death Roller in Box is the size of the investment compared to the importance of winning. In a CPOMB world, all menz are 7AV.
I'd consider it for tourneys or for leagues.
Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2016-01-21 18:08:12
Hi Bloodfeast i have a few things for u to consider - and thanks for posting in the first place by the way.
1) Purplechest is a legendary (and horrible draw to get in the bb!) dwarf player so what he says I would say is likely fairly golden. However, and i dont know if Purple agrees with this, my observation is he plays mainly at very low tv where dorfs can enjoy their skill advantage over their opponents - i highly recommend watchng his games if u are going down the dorf route.
2) Dorfs are very different to other races in how they play (better players than me please feel free to correct me if im wrong - and this is pretty much everyone ;) - this means that you will learn dwarf positioning and something about beating dwarfs if u can learn from what your opponents do to take adantage of your low speed/str depending on the matchup. BUT I have heard the argument that, for instance, playing dwarfs will teach you less about positioning than some other sides
3) Low tv may in the bb may be the route to take for pure positioning - but you will be met with groans! I actually did this a couple of times and found it useful in a sense but i have so many bad habits that creep in that im not sure how much good it did
4) Dorfs is a often a cat and mouse game - the opponent trying to get u out of position and stranded, you trying to smash their team. This is, in part, why dorfs play so differently to most sides but you may or not find this fun - as i gather high level players often find these matches that many of us groan about to be fasciniating
5) Finally - i think it is fair to say dorfs are much less competitive at high tv - perhaps u could try a deathroller there but as for some stupid reason a MASSIVE METAL MACHINE OF DEATH has less chance of an av break than a 100k claw mighty blow beast - i have played a few iterations of dorfs and though the steamroller is fun - my steamroller side has a lot more losses than wins!
1) Purplechest is a legendary (and horrible draw to get in the bb!) dwarf player so what he says I would say is likely fairly golden. However, and i dont know if Purple agrees with this, my observation is he plays mainly at very low tv where dorfs can enjoy their skill advantage over their opponents - i highly recommend watchng his games if u are going down the dorf route.
2) Dorfs are very different to other races in how they play (better players than me please feel free to correct me if im wrong - and this is pretty much everyone ;) - this means that you will learn dwarf positioning and something about beating dwarfs if u can learn from what your opponents do to take adantage of your low speed/str depending on the matchup. BUT I have heard the argument that, for instance, playing dwarfs will teach you less about positioning than some other sides
3) Low tv may in the bb may be the route to take for pure positioning - but you will be met with groans! I actually did this a couple of times and found it useful in a sense but i have so many bad habits that creep in that im not sure how much good it did
4) Dorfs is a often a cat and mouse game - the opponent trying to get u out of position and stranded, you trying to smash their team. This is, in part, why dorfs play so differently to most sides but you may or not find this fun - as i gather high level players often find these matches that many of us groan about to be fasciniating
5) Finally - i think it is fair to say dorfs are much less competitive at high tv - perhaps u could try a deathroller there but as for some stupid reason a MASSIVE METAL MACHINE OF DEATH has less chance of an av break than a 100k claw mighty blow beast - i have played a few iterations of dorfs and though the steamroller is fun - my steamroller side has a lot more losses than wins!
Posted by akaRenton on 2016-01-21 18:32:50
More like Dwarfs in THE box. That's the only way you'll get 100 games with them. Ranked is picky, and most everyone hates dorfs.,
Want to learn positioning, make an all zombie team. You'll lose loads but with ma4 you soon learn to pay attention to placement.
Want to learn positioning, make an all zombie team. You'll lose loads but with ma4 you soon learn to pay attention to placement.
Posted by Harad on 2016-01-21 18:33:30
Don't take the deathroller, I only take it when I deliberately want to handicap myself. It's fun but not competitive.
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-21 18:34:27
I know that Purple is legendary, and thats probobly a reason for it :)
and I know it is big investment for a roller and even worse if it is in penaltybox and thats why I wanna hear your oppinion about and specially for the roller. If I find a way to be somewhat dangerous without it, I wont even try it and It will prolly take atleat 10 games Before I get to the Point of a decision :)
yeah, the lower the TV the better for them I guess and I dont intend to have a killer team but I think I will end up around 1500-1600 and I guess that will be pretty hard even at that Point.
Maye other team is better for just pure positioning but I need to lear patiense and dwarfs are pretty much the only team that has no fast player at all, and I tend to rely on that fast guy only. here it is not even an option.
Keep the pointers comming :)
How about using cards? Trollslayers? Starplayers?
and I know it is big investment for a roller and even worse if it is in penaltybox and thats why I wanna hear your oppinion about and specially for the roller. If I find a way to be somewhat dangerous without it, I wont even try it and It will prolly take atleat 10 games Before I get to the Point of a decision :)
yeah, the lower the TV the better for them I guess and I dont intend to have a killer team but I think I will end up around 1500-1600 and I guess that will be pretty hard even at that Point.
Maye other team is better for just pure positioning but I need to lear patiense and dwarfs are pretty much the only team that has no fast player at all, and I tend to rely on that fast guy only. here it is not even an option.
Keep the pointers comming :)
How about using cards? Trollslayers? Starplayers?
Posted by Harad on 2016-01-21 18:41:55
I think dwarves are one of the very best races. Unless they encounter claw, in the hands of a strong coach they are incredibly strong. Change the mindset, you are going to the top of the drawer.
My view is to keep it simple. I think frenzy on troll slayers is difficult to control for less experienced coaches. Stick with longbeards, 2 blitzers and a runner. Don't go for inducement requiring matchups, inducements are generally not great and particularly the cards are weak. Starplayers are rarely the right call.
My view is to keep it simple. I think frenzy on troll slayers is difficult to control for less experienced coaches. Stick with longbeards, 2 blitzers and a runner. Don't go for inducement requiring matchups, inducements are generally not great and particularly the cards are weak. Starplayers are rarely the right call.
Posted by Uedder on 2016-01-21 18:49:24
Dunno if anyone mentioned this:
get 8 stand firm dorfs, surround the ball, enjoy.
get 8 stand firm dorfs, surround the ball, enjoy.
Posted by Harad on 2016-01-21 19:03:46
Uedder, I have a new goal.
Posted by Rbthma on 2016-01-21 19:12:31
I mainly play elves & such, but I drew Dwarves in the Highlander league & I decided to stick with them for a while thinking that I might learn something about positioning. I'm still a pretty poor Dwarf coach & I think I learnt a lot more about positioning by playing an all-lineman type of team.
Posted by thoralf on 2016-01-21 19:49:08
> get 8 stand firm dorfs, surround the ball, enjoy.
My evil plan has been discovered!
My evil plan has been discovered!
Posted by thoralf on 2016-01-21 19:51:06
I forgot to add this argument - would you prefer 4 Guard and 2 MB (or SF), or teh Roller of Death?
That's about the difference in prize between a lineman and a roller.
That's about the difference in prize between a lineman and a roller.
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-21 20:02:16
The all-lineman team is a good option and I shall keep that in mind, but I doubt I will go all the way down to a zombieteam since I surely will give up the game at kick of :(
true thoralf, I would rather have a couple of skills than the roller but at some Point, when the team have maybe 20 skills toghether the roller would be a option. I dont find the dwarfs be Worth their price when they got 5 skills or so.
true thoralf, I would rather have a couple of skills than the roller but at some Point, when the team have maybe 20 skills toghether the roller would be a option. I dont find the dwarfs be Worth their price when they got 5 skills or so.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2016-01-21 20:08:15
um, well i have won a major as dorfs (and so have several others, proving they can compete at high TV), and have won tourneys at every level with dorfs (my purple Delvers team were the first team to win a smack at every level). So i reject and resent that i am 'only' used to playing Dorfs at low TV.
Dorfs stay competitive through the value of team, guard and MB. And by acting in concert rather than as single pieces.
And once again, never ever through use of a deathroller. They are a comedy piece and will massively limit your team.
Slayers are fun and help with the low STR, and everyone loves a good surf, but their low AV makes them targets and most coaches find them hard to keep alive. Runner also suffer from their av8, and get hit a lot.
So base your team around a core of solid beards, some creative use of blitzers, 1-2 Slayers to deal with big guys and high str pieces and a runner or two for the ball.
As to worrying about opponents BG? mainly they should worry about hitting AV9 block wielding thick skulls. And even -2 die with a block dorf vs blockless BG is actually decent odds.
Finally, stop overthinking it and just play. Experience is the best teacher (watching good dorf coach replays isnt a bad idea either).
Dorfs stay competitive through the value of team, guard and MB. And by acting in concert rather than as single pieces.
And once again, never ever through use of a deathroller. They are a comedy piece and will massively limit your team.
Slayers are fun and help with the low STR, and everyone loves a good surf, but their low AV makes them targets and most coaches find them hard to keep alive. Runner also suffer from their av8, and get hit a lot.
So base your team around a core of solid beards, some creative use of blitzers, 1-2 Slayers to deal with big guys and high str pieces and a runner or two for the ball.
As to worrying about opponents BG? mainly they should worry about hitting AV9 block wielding thick skulls. And even -2 die with a block dorf vs blockless BG is actually decent odds.
Finally, stop overthinking it and just play. Experience is the best teacher (watching good dorf coach replays isnt a bad idea either).
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-21 20:17:13
Haha yeah, stop overthinking is maybe the most accurate Point so far for me :)
It look more and more like I shall abandon the roller all toghether and mix it up with a more lineman team than I first had in mind. Runner, blocker and blitzers are prety much the core of any team anyhow, so perhaps thats the way to go?
I mean, if legends can do it, so can I ;)
It look more and more like I shall abandon the roller all toghether and mix it up with a more lineman team than I first had in mind. Runner, blocker and blitzers are prety much the core of any team anyhow, so perhaps thats the way to go?
I mean, if legends can do it, so can I ;)
Posted by NerdBird on 2016-01-21 20:20:37
I am going to reinforce PurpleChest's comment about not taking a deathroller. As soon as I see a Dwarf team with one I know it is not a serious team. It is a team designed for fun, something similar to Goblins. The TV bloat of a deathroller is ridiculous.
I have played over 200 games with Dwarfs in Ranked and Box with a decent record. I have not once taken a death roller nor do I ever see taking one. I prefer to have a reliable plan and usually consider positioning before killing. By bringing the deathroller you are saying "i need to kill something this half to even the playing field because I will have one less next half." For this reason I do not take piling on much either on my line dorfs. PO means I have a dorf on the ground and am giving something up positionally. The line Dwarfs are your screen, your rock if you will. As slow as they are they need to be upright.
I have played over 200 games with Dwarfs in Ranked and Box with a decent record. I have not once taken a death roller nor do I ever see taking one. I prefer to have a reliable plan and usually consider positioning before killing. By bringing the deathroller you are saying "i need to kill something this half to even the playing field because I will have one less next half." For this reason I do not take piling on much either on my line dorfs. PO means I have a dorf on the ground and am giving something up positionally. The line Dwarfs are your screen, your rock if you will. As slow as they are they need to be upright.
Posted by NerdBird on 2016-01-21 20:22:06
At first you want to have one slayer. If you go with 2 and you are just learning how to use them, you will get in trouble more often than not. You need to protect your Slayers and Runner(s). Everyone else can get hit.
Posted by fidius on 2016-01-21 20:37:51
Mobility is literally the Dwarfs' only weakness, and even that is overstated: they have 4x AG3 guys, which is enough to make some dodges and pick up balls in emergencies. Strength is a minor weakness I suppose, but when you can take Guard as first skill on 10 of your 11 starters (because they already have Block and/or Tackle), it's not a weakness for long. If you're set on learning positioning the hard way, I'd say Khemri is the best choice, simply because there is almost never a Plan B. At least with Dwarfs a rookie will often win simply because they have more skills.
Posted by Subs on 2016-01-21 21:41:17
my two cents:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=808919
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=808919
Posted by Subs on 2016-01-21 22:01:44
another way to play dwarves: deathroller, 11 players, no apo!
Posted by Subs on 2016-01-21 22:17:28
11 players with the deathroller of course!
And pray to receive! :D
And pray to receive! :D
Posted by garyt1 on 2016-01-21 22:58:14
Trollslayers do make opponents wary of getting near the sidelines, whereas you may then be more confident to have battles nearer to them.
Deathroller can be fun but in general taking it will make your team worse compared to the opposition you will face. If you receive maybe you can use it to help you take 8 turns to score first half, and cause some damage. but if you kick you may want to leave it on the bench, which means you need perhaps 3 reserves to be confident you will actually be able to use it on a long drive without being banned already.
Guard is very important for your Dwarfs to get lots of 2d blocks and keep progressing.
Deathroller can be fun but in general taking it will make your team worse compared to the opposition you will face. If you receive maybe you can use it to help you take 8 turns to score first half, and cause some damage. but if you kick you may want to leave it on the bench, which means you need perhaps 3 reserves to be confident you will actually be able to use it on a long drive without being banned already.
Guard is very important for your Dwarfs to get lots of 2d blocks and keep progressing.
Posted by mrt1212 on 2016-01-22 01:14:47
Proof of Advice:
I have a losing record with Dorfs post Death Roller. Up until that purchase it was smooth sailing.
Why do I keep it? Spite
I have a losing record with Dorfs post Death Roller. Up until that purchase it was smooth sailing.
Why do I keep it? Spite
Posted by keggiemckill on 2016-01-22 01:52:47
No Tractor= No Dwarves. They should be mandatory. Anyone who doesn't use them is a filthy min/maxer. Don't listen to PC, he can squeeze the fun out of just about anything. Listen to mrt1212, he knows how to have fun. Winning isn't everything, that's why they invented Deathrollers and Halfings. Anyone who has never used a Fling team or is not pro DeatgTractor (again PC) isn't here for everyone's enjoyment, but only their own. Selfish sods.
Posted by Subs on 2016-01-22 02:02:35
I will explain my point of view with more details cause nobody looks to heard me :) :
I play a lot of games with dwarves and a lot with the deathroller and i win most of them with this team (https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=808919) or this one (https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=789145) and i'm sure that deathroller is a great bonus for dwarves team but the team must be create totally around him.
So no troll slayers, no apo, 2 rerolls, only one runner and no bench to have a kind of strange min/max dwarf team that have a great power in the beginning of game!
With this kind of team, some people called me min/maxer but i think it is a really fluffy way to play dwarves enginners! ;)
I play a lot of games with dwarves and a lot with the deathroller and i win most of them with this team (https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=808919) or this one (https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=789145) and i'm sure that deathroller is a great bonus for dwarves team but the team must be create totally around him.
So no troll slayers, no apo, 2 rerolls, only one runner and no bench to have a kind of strange min/max dwarf team that have a great power in the beginning of game!
With this kind of team, some people called me min/maxer but i think it is a really fluffy way to play dwarves enginners! ;)
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-22 16:35:39
Thanks for all your inputs and I Think I have my game clear. 13 man roster and no roller.
Now is the problem winning with them since I am no dwarfcoach whatsoever, but then again, thats why I must learn to play them hehe!
I will keep focus on my elfs and slanns more thou! :)
(But that tip with 8 dorfs with stand firm sounds kinda interresting ;) )
Thanks everyone!
Now is the problem winning with them since I am no dwarfcoach whatsoever, but then again, thats why I must learn to play them hehe!
I will keep focus on my elfs and slanns more thou! :)
(But that tip with 8 dorfs with stand firm sounds kinda interresting ;) )
Thanks everyone!
Posted by Cavetroll on 2016-01-23 06:34:22
Dwarves can teach you the positioning game, although I think Khemri are better for this. I've played a couple of dwarf teams in both Ranked and Box and I've tried a few different strategies for the linemen (longbeards). After Guard and Mighty Blow, the next choice is going to be either Stand Firm or Fend. It depends on your own preference and what type of opponents you play, but these two skills will help a lot with denying your opponent forward momentum. In box I favor Fend, but I usually take a mixture of both eventually. Slayers are your killers and should take all the necessary skills (MB, PO, T, Jug). Blitzers can do a bit of everything, but if you get no stats or doubles G, MB, T, Stand Firm are all good choices. The key to playing dwarves is to keep the team together and don't get too spread out. Guard is your best friend.
Posted by PaddyMick on 2016-01-23 11:56:28
If your going to play 100 games, get some good fluff going to keep yourself interested during the bad times
Posted by Bloodfeast on 2016-01-23 12:40:53
Great idea paddy! I will prolly need it to keep this going :)
Posted by ImpactedAnimal on 2016-01-23 12:55:20
Cheers for the respons and thanks for the correction Purple, I must admit was just going off last few times I seen you in the BB