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MattDakka
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2012-11-02 02:43:57
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2012-02-26 18:14:35
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2012-05-10 14:47:58
13 votes, rating 2.2
How I would change the block dice.
I would like to try this house rule (Note: rules for assists and comparing players' strengths in order to decide how many Block dice are rolled are unchanged):

1: Attacker Pow (the attacker is pushed back and knocked down, opposing coach chooses the destination square, Stand Firm/Side Step can be used by the attacker)

2: Attacker push/pow: (the attacker is pushed back and knocked down, if he has the Dodge skill he will be just pushed back, Stand Firm/Side Step can be used)

3: Attacker Down (knocked down on the spot, as usual)

4: Attacker pushed back (Stand Firm/Side Step can be used by the attacker)

5: Both pushed back (Stand Firm/Side Step works for both players, if they have it)

6: Both down (players with Block skill are not knocked down, as usual, Wrestle can be used)

7: Both push/pow (both players are pushed back and knocked down, unless they have the Dodge skill, in that case the Dodge player/s will treat this result as a push back, Stand Firm/Side Step can be used by both players)

8: Both pow (both players are pushed back and knocked down, each coach decides the destination square of the opponent's player, Stand Firm/Side Step can be used by both players)

9: Defender pushed back (he can use Stand Firm/Side Step)

10: Defender down (knocked down in the square he currently occupies, Stand Firm/Side Step can be used)

11: Defender push/pow (the defender is pushed back and knocked down, if he has the Dodge skill, he will be just pushed back, Stand Firm/Side Step can be used)

12: Defender pow (Stand Firm/Side Step can be used)
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Comments
Posted by jarvis_pants on 2012-05-10 14:52:38
Thats basicaly alot more skulls to roll.... i like it :P
Posted by Garion on 2012-05-10 14:53:50
sounds very similar to Tutatis ;)
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-05-10 14:59:08
Tutatis uses 2d6, my table uses a d12 and it's more elegant (no clunky additions and subtractions, the outcome is easy to sort out.
Posted by Hitonagashi on 2012-05-10 15:00:00
I take it you want to make the easiest dodge a 5+ too?
Posted by Garion on 2012-05-10 15:00:51
yup, i get it, just similar is all ;)

And yeah your way is easier.
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-05-10 15:06:05
Yes, I was inspired by it, but I felt that it was too clunky, with a special d12 with icons, like the normal BB block die, I think it would be a quick system to work out blocks, with greater tactical depth, as more block combinations have been taken in account. :)
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-05-10 15:12:23
@Hitonagashi: I didn't think of Dodges, my idea is about Block dice only. :)
No ideas for dodges, but it could be funny to invent something for them as well, though :D.
Posted by WhatBall on 2012-05-10 15:26:53
Too complicated and far too many symbols on the dice. As much as I love the much maligned d12, I don't like this idea.

Next you will be asking for 6 minute turns to figure out each die roll Matt. ;)
Posted by BooAhl on 2012-05-10 15:28:21
Can they grab each other at the same time?

/LOVE
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-05-10 15:40:41
@WhatBall: I don't think it would be complicated, only slightly more complicated compared to current system.
:)

@BooAhl: I think yes. Alternatively, players with Grab could simple cancel the skill each other.
Posted by Hitonagashi on 2012-05-10 15:55:18
What I meant, Matt, is that you have 50% of your table putting the attacker on his ass.

Currently, the odds are 33%.

It's equivalent to moving the "standard" 3+ dodge and pickup to a 4+ without changing any block dice...game balance suddenly drastically shifts, and if you don't change dodges at all, elves become god, as they can't be bashed any more.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2012-05-10 15:57:54
Basically it's a D12.

If you don't have a D12, you can use 2D6, rolled one at a time. If the 1st is 1-3 then you assess the 2nd as 1-6, if the 1st is 4-6 then you assess the 2nd as 7-12.

These rules though will make it almost impossible to break a strong offense or defense, and there'll be an awful lot of turnovers. It'll lead to a lot of stalemates.
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-05-10 16:32:20
@Hitonagashi: On a single die the odds are 50%, but generally you don't rely on 1 die blocks, barring desperate situations; this is good because 1 die blocks and -2 dice blocks turn the game to a luck contest, I wanted to discourage that. Blocking with 2 dice (and without block and dodge on the attacker) makes the odds drop to 25%. Moreover, some results move the players away, and should make the game less bogged down in blocking wars toe to toe.

Posted by Corvidius on 2012-05-10 16:43:54
I think a smaller change like using a normal d6 and changing a 3 result to both players are pushed back would work better.
Posted by pythrr on 2012-05-10 16:46:35
but....

aren't you making it MORE of a luck contest with such changes?
Posted by MattDakka on 2012-05-10 16:57:16
@pythrr: If you consistently 2 dice block, and get some basic skills as Block/Dodge and/or Tackle, there is not much luck involved, try it with 2d12.
The more different block situations there are, the greater tactical depth there is.



Posted by Overhamsteren on 2012-05-10 17:14:36
1: SKULL
2: SKULL
3: SKULL
4: SKULL
5: SKULL
6: SKULL
7: POW
8: POW
9: POW
10: POW
11: POW
12: POW

KILL ALL MENS!!
Posted by harvestmouse on 2012-05-10 17:26:58
D12 is a bit too random for me, this is going back more to 2nd edition style. This would kill 1 die blocking on teams such as Norse.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2012-05-10 17:58:26
This would make the D12 even more maligned than it already is ;)
Posted by Nelphine on 2012-05-10 18:01:08
so just to compare a similar type, numbers in brackets correspond to your chart:

using your chart, but roll a d6, and then a 1d2:
1 - attacker down
a - in same square (3)
b - pushed then down (1)
2 - both down OR both push
a - both down (6)
b - both push (5)
3 - push
a - defender pushed (9)
b - both pushed
4 - bad push
a - attacker push/pow (2)
b - attacker pushed (4)
5 - push/pow
a - defender push/pow (11)
b - both push/pow (7)
6 - pow
a - defender pow (12)
b - both pow (8)

you'll note that by comparing it in this way you can see how the balance skews like crazy

now we take a basic block: target has blodge, attacker has block, 2 die block

the attacker has: 1/9 chance of knocking himself down and causing a turnover (see zons for how bad this is)
the defender has: 23/144 chance of being knocked over without also knocking over the attacker

Note that this means that there is only a 7/144 (or about 5%) better chance of powing the target as there is of causing a turnover.

This means there is only a 16% chance of ever getting the ball away from a blodge/sure hands ball carrier (and still being able to do something about it); with a re-roll available it becomes 29%, ASSUMING a 2 die block. Even a 3 die block only has a 40% chance of success, given the defender has those skills.

If you simply want more tactical options, I would make all of your new sub rolls of the basic 6 rolls. So put ALL of the ones that result in the attacker down (down, pow/push, pow) as a sub roll of skull. Then make all the both down (down, pow/push, pow) as a sub roll of double down. Leave one push as purely defender pushed, while the other push becomes: defender pushed/attacker pushed/both pushed. Leave pow/push and pow as they are.

In this way, you keep the balance much closer to what there is already, instead of making blodge ridiculous.