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PurpleChest
Last seen 4 hours ago
Ogre
[B]
Rookie
Ogre
CR
Record
0/0/0
Win Percentage
n/a
Ogre
[R]
Rookie
Ogre
CR
Record
0/0/0
Win Percentage
n/a
Overall
[R]
Super Star
Overall
Record
2426/388/670
Win Percentage
75%
Archive

2019

2019-06-20 15:50:02
rating 6
2019-05-09 18:36:57
rating 5.7
2019-04-18 22:11:57
rating 6
2019-04-17 00:10:12
rating 5.9
2019-04-04 17:13:36
rating 5.7
2019-03-01 23:55:23
rating 6
2019-02-14 11:24:30
rating 5.8
2019-02-13 17:42:23
rating 6
2019-02-02 10:06:00
rating 6
2019-01-21 22:52:17
rating 6
2019-01-10 18:21:46
rating 6

2018

2018-11-22 00:24:59
rating 4.5
2018-11-18 13:04:41
rating 5.4
2018-11-01 19:21:13
rating 5.4
2018-07-01 21:01:22
rating 5.5
2018-02-28 03:32:14
rating 5.8
2018-01-22 12:10:44
rating 6
2018-01-16 13:53:01
rating 5.8

2017

2017-12-08 12:48:50
rating 5.8
2017-06-04 13:17:32
rating 5.5

2016

2016-12-19 03:25:57
rating 4.9
2016-12-14 12:37:29
rating 6
2016-12-07 00:56:37
rating 5.4
2016-11-19 17:11:42
rating 3.3
2016-08-27 23:26:23
rating 4.8
2016-06-20 20:17:31
rating 3.4
2016-05-19 11:00:53
rating 2.4
2016-05-18 00:09:36
rating 4.4
2016-05-14 17:41:41
rating 4.9
2016-03-23 14:52:34
rating 5.4
2016-03-16 23:45:57
rating 4.4

2015

2015-07-05 15:15:28
rating 3.9
2015-07-01 23:59:12
rating 5.6
2015-05-12 21:02:20
rating 5.6
2015-05-10 11:46:26
rating 5.2
2015-05-06 23:42:57
rating 5.4
2015-04-26 22:35:03
rating 5.3
2015-04-19 22:04:12
rating 5.5
2015-04-07 11:11:04
rating 4.1
2015-03-23 17:32:29
rating 5.4
2015-03-17 14:48:04
rating 5
2015-03-07 01:36:50
rating 5.2
2015-03-04 17:39:51
rating 4.1
2015-02-16 23:28:52
rating 5
2015-02-10 11:58:40
rating 4.8
2015-02-09 21:30:20
rating 4.9
2015-01-12 23:42:43
rating 5.3
2015-01-04 04:32:15
rating 5.6

2014

2014-12-06 19:34:35
rating 4.2
2014-11-26 14:40:40
rating 5.6
2014-11-19 11:02:14
rating 5.2
2014-11-14 12:19:32
rating 4.8
2014-11-06 02:35:14
rating 5
2014-11-03 22:27:41
rating 5.3
2014-11-01 00:30:17
rating 5.5
2014-10-28 23:04:33
rating 4.8
2014-08-07 09:54:46
rating 4.8
2014-07-31 21:50:54
rating 4.6
2014-07-10 20:03:15
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2014-05-30 23:33:33
rating 5.3
2014-05-16 09:38:41
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2014-04-05 00:45:51
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2014-03-29 01:18:48
rating 3.7
2014-03-20 11:28:54
rating 5.2
2014-03-12 16:33:00
rating 5.4
2014-03-05 11:26:23
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2014-03-03 12:21:46
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2014-02-12 00:34:04
rating 4
2014-02-08 13:58:05
rating 4.8
2014-01-18 12:27:30
rating 5.1
2014-01-09 17:49:09
rating 5.7

2013

2013-11-28 12:32:14
rating 4.7
2013-11-11 01:21:36
rating 4.8
2013-10-27 13:44:19
rating 4.8
2013-10-24 16:09:34
rating 4.9
2013-10-18 15:33:17
rating 5
2013-10-10 12:34:59
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2013-10-08 03:22:12
rating 5.6
2013-10-03 11:37:07
rating 5.6
2013-09-25 12:45:59
rating 5.8
2013-09-14 14:40:08
rating 5.4
2013-08-08 02:05:26
rating 5.6
2013-08-01 16:41:56
rating 4.9
2013-07-17 14:02:45
rating 5.3
2013-07-12 10:25:47
rating 5.4
2013-05-24 17:49:59
rating 5.5
2013-04-20 16:06:51
rating 5.5
2013-04-11 01:07:48
rating 5.5
2013-04-08 15:36:56
rating 4.8
2013-04-03 22:06:38
rating 4.8
2013-03-20 22:30:57
rating 4.3
2013-02-21 14:19:49
rating 5.2
2013-02-15 00:34:14
rating 5.6
2013-02-01 16:34:01
rating 5.5
2013-01-09 22:54:13
rating 4.9
2013-01-03 14:30:39
rating 5.3

2012

2012-10-20 21:28:42
rating 5.5
2012-09-12 17:21:48
rating 4.3
2012-09-04 11:26:15
rating 5.1
2012-08-30 11:14:51
rating 5.2

2011

2011-10-30 14:02:37
rating 5.1
2011-06-13 15:25:56
rating 5.2
2011-04-04 11:17:18
rating 5
2011-02-17 01:01:36
rating 4
2011-02-15 02:46:21
rating 4.5

2009

2009-04-15 23:14:11
rating 5.2
2009-02-04 15:29:14
rating 3.6

2008

2008-12-14 00:34:30
rating 3.5
2008-07-27 19:07:19
rating 4.2
2008-07-18 09:44:59
rating 4.2

2007

2007-11-16 16:19:58
rating 3.8
2007-09-27 16:20:29
rating 4
2011-02-15 02:46:21
41 votes, rating 4.5
On Min/Max LRB6 builds.
I feel the subect was approached in a reasoned way in Purplegoo's LRB6 - A Team Building Culture Shift? and also talked about a great deal in Mr Foulscumm's Team Value and Pact but I wanted to archive my comment from Garions Thread.

The divisions of FUMBBL are like eco systems. We have anew breed of predator in B division, and it is causing a stir. It is particularly effective in B given the predominance of bashy teams in B historically, which this new breed of predator is designed/evolved to be effective against. it will be notably less of a problem in R where matches against such builds can simply be avoided. But is it a problem? To me, no.

First it is important to understand what B is and does. Factually, not emotionally.

It creates match ups, using a scheduler, that matches teams based on TV amended by racial factors and tightness of the TV fit between the teams. That's all.

BWR therefore is a value ascribed to coaches based on their ability to win games within those parameters. BBR a value indicating a coaches ability to deal damage within those strictures.

Many of us use the division for a variety of other reasons. Some a supposed 'rightness' of the BB played there, some as they believe it shows a coaches true ability, some as they can't get games in other divisions, some for the immediacy of the match ups, some as they prefer the letter B to the letter R, some as their best mate only plays that one and hence thats why they came and how they learned. in short, for a HUGE variety of reasons.

It is possible the new breed of predator will drive a lot of those away, like too many sharks in a small inland sea. And then with their prey dried up, they will also thin in number, like in any eco system. they may even drive the sytem to extinction. But it is far too early to tell if these doomsday scenarios are comming to pass. If they do then Christer could be moved to bring some form of TS back, maybe. Or maybe some other corrective measure will be needed, or will happen naturally.

It is also possible that shark hunters will evolve. Blodging elf teams, amazons, someone actually using fend etc etc. There are counters to these builds, the big problem being that B has traditionally been a VERY unhealthy place for these builds as the dorf horde rips them apart. But maybe the Dorfs will be rarer now?

So maybe builds like this will force more diversity upon box coaches. Would that be such a bad thing?

Human behaviour can be hard to predict and define. the responses to LRB6 and the builds and TV managing it has brought to pass will take time to develop and bed down. We will see reactions and counter reactions.

There are some constants though. Anyone that has gamed, in RL or OL, and especially anyone associated with running/managing any function of FUMBBL, will tell you that in any system, with any set of rules, for any reason, with or without rewards, people will meta game and min/max to every possible extent. Other people will never want to be scoiable even in a 1 v 1 game, for whatever reason. Facts, unchangable.

those that remember the FC mass cheater debacle may also recall the only defence offered precied to 'Everyone else was meta-gaming, so we just took it one stage further'. Horrific and shabby as that whole episode was, they did have a vague point. you could at least see where they might be coming from.

In games, people try to win. in an unstructired gaming enviroment like this people define 'win' personally and often very differently. And try VERY hard to win.

Back to B. People will meta game any system. And define win individually, and chase it with every tool and tactic at their disposal. and so are/will those that condemn them. be it win %, BWR, BBR or just 'pissing people off', you cannot and will not stop it. All you can do is choose the options that do exist:

Counter it: Builds that beat every design do exist.
Join them: If its so good, try it.
Ignore them: Progress past the TV they hunt at, or just play them and try your best.
Leave: there are other options for playing BB, even on FUMBBL.

And while i do not endorse trolling, i do quite like a little bit of ridicule of such utterly one dimensional coaches. Given the vast variety offered by this game, they choose to do one thing endlessly. thats a little bit sad don't you think? And why? to make some numbers different to what they were before the game.

I once said this:
Numbers are there to look pretty, not mean things. If only we stopped attaching meaning to the numbers and starting seeing them like flowers. But then some people insist on competing for the prettiest flowers don't they?
it remains true, imho. Though i confess I am not immune to trying to win flower shows myself.

This is a game, have fun. if your opponent defines fun differently to you, who are you to tell them they are wrong? Just get through it and hope for fun more of your liking next time.
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Comments
Posted by Cavetroll on 2011-02-15 06:24:10
Well said. And I was first to comment (though not rate).
Posted by Jeffro on 2011-02-15 06:38:42
AAaaahaahaahAAAH... men.
Posted by TransientNomad on 2011-02-15 08:04:55
I don't see a problem with meta gaming (i still hate those *&^% wearwolf meta teams or love to hate i love going after the kill more than the win in those games) I was actually thinking about builds that might do well at destroying them at there own game.

the two i came up with were Dorf or Norse only because they start with block. 840K for a starting dorf team you can get the whole team with PO MB at around 1350k (wishfull thinking getting an even sp spread with dorf i know) just under the 1400k sweet spot that most of these teams like to sit at. Or maybe a norse team with linemen two blitz 680k start. Just use Blitzers for the killing and put mass fend on the linemen. Go for sp an th Blitzers after two skill MB PO they'd be trouble. in theory you could have a whole team with block and two killers at 760K

No Apo Never works anyway :)

all fire with fire think i might go make one now
Posted by Garion on 2011-02-15 08:28:01
a good read, thanks :), I just worry about the doomsday scenario. I hope Im wrong and other people dont get put off the box because of the min max teams and continue to play in it :)
Posted by JanMattys on 2011-02-15 09:05:01
I think I might come back just to read your blog entries, PC.
Posted by f_alk on 2011-02-15 09:44:18
I agree with everything you wrote up to this line - although I think you meant it differently. Still, "the meaning of a message is what the receiver understands and not what the sender wants it to mean":
"if your opponent defines fun differently to you, who are you to tell them they are wrong?"
ahm .... who are they to spoil my fun? I can just tell them they are wrong, but they actually act to spoil my fun. I'd rather have someone tell me "your car is on fire" (even if it isn't and he's wrong) than someone acting and setting my car on fire. Telling = communication - the one thing that in former threads was so often mentioned as a crucial factor.

Posted by RandomOracle on 2011-02-15 11:14:25
If your fouls/stalls/passes the ball against you and you don't like it, you can of course tell him that. Just don't expect him to change his game just to please you.
Posted by f_alk on 2011-02-15 12:53:10
Of course I don't expect him to change his style just to please me. But if (many more) others tell him that too, maybe then a thought process starts :)
Posted by JellyBelly on 2011-02-15 14:34:36
It'd take more than a handful of metagaming killerteams to push me away from my beloved [B]ox. If it starts becoming an issue for me then I'll put my elves on hold; make a 'counter team' and go hunt them down. :D
Posted by maysrill on 2011-02-15 14:35:10
Cl/MB/PO Pact takes over B

Amazon "demonslayer" teams develop to combat nasty pact build, loading up on Fend, and MB/PO of their own (rendering PO and Claw useless against them).

Amazon demonslayers take over B

Dwarf Juggernaut teams develop to combat nasty amazon build, loading up on Juggernaut/MB/PO, DT, and Guard to maul the helpless zons.

Dwarf Juggernaut teams take over B

Cl/MB/PO Pact teams develop to combat nasty dwarf juggernauts...
Posted by Grod on 2011-02-15 14:55:06
You had me up until the flower part. Then I was lost.
Posted by The_Murker on 2011-02-16 10:16:20
Dude, the flowers were so close to the end! You almost made it. You just had to link flowers with a nice CR or BWR, but get the hint it was all ultimately pointless, then it was a brief "try to enjoy yourself out there, men" and that was it. Sweet post.
Posted by Ruiner on 2011-02-17 03:54:50
Having to make counter teams against all those minmaxers will only make the problem worse, because you never know who your opponent is, so there's no guarentee you'll be up against a minmaxer. People which aren't them will get caught in the crossfire anyway /shrug.

It's a good post though. Also, I fear being called a flower picker!
Posted by gandresch on 2011-02-24 00:01:58
I don't think that your calculation will work. As long as people can just make a new team and start over and over again, the behaviour on fumbbl will certainly be different than it is in real nature (as you referred to in the beginning). No coach is forced to play the team until "the end"...