Posted by pythrr on 2011-11-06 10:22:44
but the rules arent changing any time soon
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-11-06 10:40:03
Skaven throwers are totally real throwers! It's the gutter runners that are the runners!
The thing with making passing any easier though is that it's powerful, once you get the skills. An elf thrower with one double and one single can long bomb on a 3+, only fumbling on the natural 1, and probably with a reroll. A long bomb gets you what, up to 12 spaces of movement? Interceptions aren't a realistic proposal for the majority of teams, just something incidental that happens when you get lucky and roll a 6.
Passing's perfectly viable as a strategy, if you're elves. It's one of the ways high elves and wood elves stall quite often. It's just that if you give it to the other, more versatile or bashy teams, they'll be able to overcome their weakness that is slow movement, and those fantastic longbeard desperation longbombs you see in turn 8 all the time would never be quite so dramatic again!
Posted by bghandras on 2011-11-06 10:47:04
Longbeard has no pass skill, so i beleive it would change nothing to them.
Posted by Kelkka on 2011-11-06 11:12:19
Effectively it is almost like this already, you just roll the dice separately. Only difference is the "inaccurate first pass" scenario when you can't choose the first dice after reroll.
You could also roll the block dice one by one. No mathematical difference in output.
Posted by Kelkka on 2011-11-06 11:14:54
Forgot to say I like the way you are thinking tho!
And I agree about the diversity=fun thing too :)
Posted by koadah on 2011-11-06 12:26:43
Nah, c-pomb isn't too strong if you're talking about winning games. (Unless you go to overtime that is ;) )
People like it because it kills stuff. And the game is called... ;)
If I wanted to pass I could use elves. Truth is I'm using zons & humans because they get pomb easier. If people think pomb is too soft & they must have c-pomb good luck to them.;)
This is the natural way of things. SWL, WIL have restricted bashers for ages.
And what is this diversity problem? Teams can't/won't maintain high TV? They're not supposed to. They're supposed to take the inducements.
Posted by bghandras on 2011-11-06 12:58:32
My point is that about 5% of the drives are passing, which is not diverse in my opinion.
Posted by koadah on 2011-11-06 16:21:14
Ever here the saying "don't roll unnecessary dice"?
I've seen too many snakes/double skulls rerolled to snakes/double skulls recently to be making unnecessary rolls. ;)
AG3 already pass well enough and AG4 pass well. After a team has been around a while it will have some AG4 or even 5.
People don't pass because they don't need to. They can score with out it. They also want to use up the clock so unnecessary passing is a bad idea.
If you want to make passing more attractive you need to make rushing harder.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2011-11-06 16:56:55
Yeah problem with passing is that it will let you score too easily(early) ;D
Someone once suggested playing 4x4 turns instead of 2x8 to make passing more valuable, lots of dwarf players got their panties in a twist. :P
I would definitely be willing to try 4x4 turns in a league some day, sounds like a nice variation to the game.
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-11-06 17:10:55
Let's extend the field and go full american with 10 yard drives and 4 downs while we're at it :D
Posted by bghandras on 2011-11-06 18:24:52
I actually considered, and even tested 10 yard drives, 4 downs on tabletop, but the game length become unexcusably long. Also brought even more repetition instead of more variety.
I like the 4*4 turns idea though. (Or 4*5 if it is not possible to score with really slow teams in 4 turns.)
Posted by ahalfling on 2011-11-06 20:56:39
I would say "about 5% of the drives are passing" for extreme bashing/running teams (e.g. chaos or chaos dwarves). Playing (for example) wood elves or Slann, I expect to pass on most offensive drives, and am not opposed to a pass on a defensive drive if I recover the ball. And I'm not a great coach, certainly, but my record is securely above .500.
(Side note: if you want to promote passing, the way to go is probably to give more players catch as a starting skill. It's not the pass that's dangerous -- plenty of players have the pass skill, and can get accurate etc. 4 AG + accurate + pass = 2+ with reroll for short passes, 3+ with reroll for long passes. I don't think anyone would consider that a horrible risk if the situation justified it.
It's the catch that is easy to miss, given that most players don't have a reroll on it, and it's hard to justify taking catch.)