Posted by fangbanger on 2011-09-17 16:07:18

you Had friends..............really?

Posted by Dhaktokh on 2011-09-17 16:11:06

Fangbanger... those kinds of comments just sucks.

Posted by Keith-Lemon on 2011-09-17 16:16:03

Whats wrong with it?

Posted by Woodstock on 2011-09-17 16:28:50

It is anti-social trolling, lame.

But yeah, sad to see Ro leaving... And he will not be the last :(

Posted by koadah on 2011-09-17 16:41:17

So why aren't you all one big happy family playing LRB4?

Why not [R]anked or [L]eague? What about House Rules?

I'm not seeing what the problem is.

Posted by Calthor on 2011-09-17 16:45:21

Sad to see Ro leaving.... but why do you think it has anything to do with LRB6?

Posted by Cevap on 2011-09-17 16:53:11

I agree with koadah, this awesome site provides you loads of options with which you can enhance your experience here, and as soon as we get to use custom icons and play LRB4 using the new client (which will be soon I hope :D ), I see no reason for people to leave.

Posted by DonTomaso on 2011-09-17 17:19:16

There is no reason to leave, as koadah said...

But I agree somewhat, Black Box has made this a little more Counter Strike... (no social interaction, win at the cost of fun).

Posted by Garion on 2011-09-17 17:20:50

Then don't play in blackbox, its simples. However I suspect Shadow is talking about the bigger picture here. RO leaving I'm guessing was just the straw that broke the hairy camels back in this instance.

Posted by Ravenmore on 2011-09-17 18:41:55

Fun friends if a ruleset change takes them away =)

I recommend making new ones.

Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-09-17 18:56:35

Tomaso, wasn't Box always like that though? I wasn't here for long before the swapover, but I don't see why a different/better killer skillset would make people more anti-social.

Posted by DonTomaso on 2011-09-17 19:02:59

The box has sort of always been like that, yes.
But now there is a deadlier combo of skills around, and it appeals to the CS-generation. And since it is the Box, they don't have to be sociable to get games, they can just toss their team in the mix, and play, without having to worry about anything.
I'm sure if you look around, you will see many with 'killerteams' only...

In ranked it is quite different, since your opponent have to accept the game and the terms.

Posted by Cloggy on 2011-09-17 19:19:34

Let's not turn this into another Box debate guys.

The point here is that the new ruleset has fundamentally changed a game some of us have had as a hobby for many years. This is true wehter you like the changes themselves or not.

During those years you meet some people online who you start to consider as friends.

When big changes drive some of these friends away it hurts your own enjoyment of your hobby and a downward spiral may ensue.

Shadow has every right to point out that the fact people are leaving ruins his day.

Posted by pythrr on 2011-09-17 19:21:52

/me totally agrees

Posted by Sigmar1 on 2011-09-17 20:33:01

"The point here is that the new ruleset has fundamentally changed a game some of us have had as a hobby for many years."

I've been playing bb since 2nd addition and changes come and go. The idea that the change from lrb4 to lrb6 is an earth-shattering 'fundamental' change to the game...I just don't see it. A couple tweaks really. The 'fundamental' rules all remain the same. Some peripheral skill interactions are different. Aging. Apo. Minor stuff.

On the plus side we've got three more teams, a kickass new and easier to use client (you rock Kalimar!) and the site continues to improve (you rock Christer!)

People who can't adapt to such a minor modifications of the rules and leave such a great game and community because of it(IMHO) are mighty thin skinned.

Posted by Cloggy on 2011-09-18 01:25:17

Come on Sigmar, you can't really mean this.

My tabletop league hasn't been really impacted by the change, but Fumbbl sure as hell has.

If nothing major had changed, why do you think loads of old pals are leaving?

Posted by Fela on 2011-09-18 01:40:33

@Cloggy:
He's right though, fundamentally the game stays the same, it's only nuances that change. If anything the attitude change in the playerbase (what someone described with a Counter Strike mentality) is more pronounced IMO than all the rulechanges combined.

I tend to compare it with WoW. After each new expansion it always used to be a new experience, partly different game...for a few weeks. And then we always ended our abos again, because in essence it still was just same old, same old. (The temporary novelty was still fun as long as it lasted, though)

Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-09-18 03:18:37

I think it's also worth noting that while FUMBBL may have not lived through all the rule changes, I seriously doubt that LRB4 to CRP is anything near the most drastic change between editions in the history of Blood Bowl...

Posted by koadah on 2011-09-18 04:19:01

>If nothing major had changed, why do you think loads of old pals are leaving?

No idea. I find their attitude totally baffling.

Posted by WhatBall on 2011-09-18 05:56:41

Shut down the Box, force people to Ranked. Unpopular at first, but best in the long run...

Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-09-18 06:51:29

@WhatBall I hope you aren't serious. If people don't like the box, then just bring up that they don't have to play there, and then Box will again change into a room full of bashers. Sure it doesn't sound pretty but at least you give the people a choice right?

Posted by Purplegoo on 2011-09-18 09:22:10

Internet communities always recycle, people leave, people join, people think it's not like the 'old days'. LRB6 is your scapegoat, fair enough, but very little has changed (the idea 6 has fundamentally changed anything is beyond me, it's much the same), and the site was all but dead under LRB4.

Whatever you think about it, LRB6 saved the site (or it could be argued thus). A few leaving is better than the whole place going kaputt.

Posted by Sigmar1 on 2011-09-18 09:46:51

@Cloggy:
I seriously cannot fathom why people are leaving the game, that's why I bothered to comment in the first place. 98% of the game remains unchanged.

If (and really, I mean IF) Fumbbl has been affected, it's because some people simply cannot adjust to change. I defy you to to describe a 'fundamental' change to the game. Seriously. Please, educate me if the game has changed so drastically as to warrant not playing.

For whatever reason people have left...so be it. It doesn't change the fact the BB remains a kick ass game, and this site remains the pre-eminent kick ass (FREE!) place to play it.

On a side note: I get that it sucks that some long term and very cool players have called it quits. Eff them, is my attitude. Some day I won't play either for one reason or another. I seriously hope fumbbl continues regardless.

Posted by Rooke on 2011-09-18 10:17:06

I find it really unfortunate that a lot of great coaches with a lot of history here have packed up and moved on... But at the same time, that's a choice left in their hands. Another thing that I see as very unfortunate is some of the other coaches lumping the newer ones into having a 'counterstrike mentality'. Sure there are a few like that, but by and large if you take the time to talk to a number of the new coaches, with a little direction they can become members of this community, which I always thought was the point of FUMBBL. As much as I've enjoyed playing bloodbowl, I enjoy taking the time to talk to the other coaches even more, and some of the folks I've met on here have become friends.
I'm sorry, Shadow, that these rule changes have driven some of your friends away from the site. All and all, I have to say I like the new client a lot, and with the addition of new houserules, it's too bad that they left. I think the nice thing about FUMBBL is that there are so many options open to a coach who does (or doesn't) care for a certain style of play. Hopefully they can see this and find a reason to make their way back sometime.

Posted by bghandras on 2011-09-18 11:07:58

I dont play blackbox. I play ranked and league.

Clawpomb is a problem? Lets play elf league. Are you interested?

Posted by f_alk on 2011-09-18 11:21:34

For someone who is making fun of others whining or being thin skinned, this sounds a bit strange:
Your friends are not dead. You can stay in touch with them if you want. You (and them) can make [L]-teams to play here against each other, or play TT (if you can meet in real) or BOTOCS (if you can't meet and don't want to play here), and houserule differently from the houserules of [B] and [R].

I still believe that the house-rule TV-brackets are a problem - I hope that s/o can collect data of matches with a high-TV-difference from [L], so we can see if the brackets can be loosened or omitted.

Posted by koadah on 2011-09-18 11:59:40

No, you have to keep the TV brackets.

They remind people of how things were in LRB4. If you rid of them you will lose even more dinosaurs.

Posted by Nighteye on 2011-09-18 12:50:45

Coaches demanded blackbox.

They got what they deserved.

Posted by Garion on 2011-09-18 14:06:55

I think the TV brackets are needed. When two teams have a close to equal TV they should be roughly evenly matched teams in theory. It is the only way to do it. If the TV brackets were gone and you played a killed cpomb team with a rookie team you just wouldnt play ever again. However I do think the TV brackets should be made bigger or got rid of in ranked because you can pick and choose who you want there anyway.

But I agree there should be no league caps in any of the leagues, there is just no need at all in L

Posted by KenThis on 2011-09-18 14:12:17

please don't forget that as people get older they change, get new responsibilities, have new ideas as to whats fun for their free time, have less "free" time and need to please partners/change nappies. Coaches have been leaving fumbbl for a variety of reasons ever since I joined, lrb6 may seem to have pushed a few more over the edge but it might just be their time to move on, leaving lrb6 scapegoated.

Posted by Retro21 on 2011-09-18 14:19:01

agree with Ken, there is always a turnover on forums, I'm just glad there are still people joining and playing.

If your friends left it was probably the straw that broke the camel's back, rather than the only reason. Life brings lots of challenges and playing games online all the time just isn't possible.

Anyway, sorry you feel so bad about it all, hope you find a new hobby. Remember the good times!

Posted by Astarael on 2011-09-18 14:35:01

You still have me shadow <3

Although I don't play atm so, kinda not :/

Posted by Overhamsteren on 2011-09-18 15:05:37

+1 Purplegoo

Seen it in a lot of games, people feel burned out and then blame the new rules as they look back at their falling/being in love with the game period where everything was better(including the rules of course).

Had a bit of the same experience with warhammer 8th edition. :)

Posted by paulhicks on 2011-09-18 15:06:34

think of it like this Shadow. soon there will be a whole new intake of newbs for you to torture ;P

but yeah your right it sucks to see so many of our old friends leaving. I looked down my buddy list n reaslised how few of them are even here anymore. I re-read the loa archives the other night. Was some good times we had. Guess we're just getting old :D

The worst thing about Ro leaving is that new signups will drop by at least 50% without him here signing up his kids.

Posted by SeraphimRed on 2011-09-18 16:04:07

I wasn't a fan of some of the rules changes and still think that some of them aren't quite right. However, I was getting bored of fumbbl/bbl and was about to call it a day. Playing lrb6 and the new client has rekindled my interest in the game and fumbbl, freshening up the whole place for me.

As new coaches arrive, new friends will emerge.

Posted by Colin on 2011-09-18 17:48:57

I doubt it's rule changes - it's just life.

I've been here since the beginning - I've waxed and waned, but never participated so much I achieved burn-out. I've seen plenty of others do just that. Some came back, some didn't.

Sometimes, the key is a change of pace, or a change of role (user guide scribe, admin, league commissioner, Majors competitor, newbie tutor...), or just a break. Whatever way you do it, it gives you new goals and fresh challenges. Doing anything the same way too long will make things go stale.

Posted by Sammler_der_Seelen on 2011-09-18 17:56:21

i had some burnouts stoped playing for some months and than come back in the rumbble,many of my old friends left too (after the Faction closing)due less time or some other real life issues.cant blame a rule and/or Site change for it.we all gets older and have new interessts.Im sure i will leave the site too(may these day in a far future:D)life is evolution stagnation is Dead ,anything changes in the years.

Posted by pythrr on 2011-09-18 19:19:50

Sera, we'll hold you to that...

Posted by mattwakeman on 2011-09-18 20:24:47

Life is change...

Posted by BillBrasky on 2011-09-19 03:56:00

I will cry, give me attention!!!!



:p

Posted by Arktoris on 2011-09-19 04:12:45

the only thing about lrb6 that makes me think about leaving, is how strangely difficult it is for my norse to get a game now.

tonight, 50 coaches were online at 8pm EST. 30 were playing a game. 3 signed for the blackbox, 4 on gamefinder. my norse challenged a human team...got a "I'm waiting for another coach to respond". After 3 mins I asked him "did the other coach say yes or no"....got no answer, and the coach quit chat.

challenged a chaos team with the norse....got ignored.

finally got a dwarf coach to answer a challenge and it was "yes". had fun playing him.

afterwards, challenged a high elf team. Got a "sorry, I found another game." Leaves chat, and when I look on games played...he's not playing a game.

so...two questions

what were the other 13 coaches doing?

seems we got quite a bunch that are here, but not here for bloodbowl. For those that are online but not interested in gaming. what were you doing?

#2 - why are all non-dwarf coaches suddenly so afraid to play my norse?

Posted by maysrill on 2011-09-19 05:11:02

@Arktoris: Cowards! Every sniveling one of them unworthy to be ground beneath thy glorious wheels.

@therestofyou: LRB6 is still tons better than LRB4. Games are a little more balanced when GTR isn't an avalanche of free +2 fouls for one side. I'd rather see my players clawbombed off the pitch than skill them up only to see the ruined by aging. Journeymen keep you from having those "well, gotta round up my 8 healthy elves and pray not to lose any" games.

Given the options, I'd leave everything be. I don't much care for the split competitive divisions, but it gets the lazy people playing too. I think there'd be a TON less whining about the whole claw thing if there were no Box though.

Personally, I don't think LRB6 has much to do with anyone leaving (other than Zombie, maybe). People get sick of the game for various reasons, and LRB6 is a nice whipping boy for whatever the real reason is.

Posted by Arktoris on 2011-09-19 05:47:08

well, I found one that wasn't.

Played an exciting game vs another norse team.

Noticed something else though. gamefinder was rather empty...until a 140s CR coach showed up with a 7av team....then suddenly, three 160s coaches show up with similar TV teams.

I think I just found out what some of the other 13 coaches are doing ; )

Posted by koadah on 2011-09-19 09:14:07

@Arktoris: Didn't you know playing games isn't the only reason for using this site?
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats&op=coaches

Of course if we want to play vs bashers we can play in the Box. ;)

Posted by Arktoris on 2011-09-19 18:55:30

well that's my question koadah. if 60% hanging around aren't playing a game, what are they doing instead?

working on team bios?
league/fumbbl management?
yaking with friends in chat

or chickenhawking for an easy game.

it's a curious question. if you were on last night, but didn't post on gamefinder or box...what were you doing instead? I'd like to hear about what's got some people's attention.

Posted by koadah on 2011-09-19 19:25:00

Checking forums, league management, team management are all likely.
I play 2 or 3 games a week if I'm lucky and at least one of those will be a league/tournament game.

I probably seem to be logged in all the time but time actually spent LFG is almost zero.
It's a long while since I last used gamefinder or #fumbbl to find a match.

If I play a [R]anked game it will probably be because someone in a league chat channel challenged me.

Posted by Arktoris on 2011-09-19 19:30:23

thanks koadah!

Posted by BlizzBirne on 2011-09-19 21:41:23

@arktoris: some people are online and just watch ongoing games. i do that whenever i do not know for certain that i have enough time to play myself. which is too often to be honest.
and it still is fun to just watch - the game is just brilliant.

neither ruleset nor blackbox is responsible for anybody coming or leaving. the new client might be a reason for people to come and stay compared to earlier.

Posted by koadah on 2011-09-20 07:42:37

The broken replayer is probably killing more interest than the rules.