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ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 06:03 Reply with quote Back to top

So, for Human blitzers I have been going with first singles skill up gets guard, second gets mb, third and fourth (and the ogre) get guard. I then put tackle as the 16 spp skill of one of the guarders, pilin on as the second mb skill, and mb for either of the other guarders to roll singles.

Do you think this is the best/most efficient way? Humans aren't really going to out guard any of the bash teams and the teams they will out guard generally won't have more than 2 guard. Is it better to get tackle earlier and is it important to get pilin on as early as possible?

Secondly, how do you build Necro wights most effectively?
Do you go guard, tackle? Straight tackle, mb, po like the blit ra/undead wights? One of each?
coombz



Joined: Oct 12, 2010

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 06:37 Reply with quote Back to top

i subscribe heavily to the Guard wins games theory, especially on teams like Humans, and i think my early build would be very similar to yours

no idea if that is the best or most efficient way though, hopefully some good coaches will be along shortly Smile

i think with Necros i'd want at least 1 wight, if not both, to get MB as first skill, just because you aren't likely to have any other MB on the team for a little while. maybe 1 goes MB/Tackle and 1 Guard/Tackle? ;d

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Semitence



Joined: May 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 06:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think you *need* MB on Necro teams in the same way. Claws do a good job of stunning which should get you a similar result (a TD). The wights seem better as guards early on.

My usual (not on Fumbbl) would be guard for both first, then tackle, mb or sf depending on whom you play.
Badoek



Joined: May 17, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 08:16 Reply with quote Back to top

With Necro I really like getting Guard on the wights to help the wolves. Golems take a long time to get Guard (Block first). Once you have a few Guard on your team, Wight can become more of a hitter (MB, Tackle).

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 08:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I do just fine with a 1 guard necro team but I have tons of hitting power and two +ST players and use the boot liberally. i'd have more guard but they seem to die readily.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 08:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle. Human Blitzers are fast. They should be chasing down and ripping Blodgers to shreds.
Find a way to have it on at least 1 guy before 16spps.
I would go with your general plan but sub in Tackle for Piling On.
Your plan is solid. I just think being able to cut down Blodgers is a real key for Humans.

Almost every opponent has them and they are often opponents best scoring threat(s).
Ghouls, Gutter Runners, Norse Runners, Catchers of multiple types, Goblins, Flings, just about any Elf... you need a plan to deal with them and that plan is TACKLE.

And the opponents that won't have them early on (heavy bash) will likely have them later for a ballcarrier.

Plus... how much is Mighty Blow and Piling On only going to do to take down some Orcs?
Reducing their AV to 8 and getting to reroll their armor (leaving your Blitzer prone btw) is not likely to send them off... you need to beat those types of teams with your SPEED and Agility and built in rerolls.

But reducing that Elf AV to 7 (or 6) and cutting right through his Defensive uses for Dodge... that will win you games.
When you see how fevered your Elf opponents are to target and try to remove your Tackler you will see how valuable they know he is to your chance of winning.

I like to aim for this with my ST access players on the Human team. Assuming I can keep them alive and they skill at a similar rate or course.
Ogre - Guard, Piling On,
Blitzer 1 - Guard, Mighty Blow, - Piling On, Tackle
Blitzer 2 - Mighty Blow, Tackle, - Guard, Piling On
Blitzer 3 - Guard, Tackle, - Mighty Blow, Piling On
Blitzer 4 - Mighty Blow, Guard, - Tackle, Piling On
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 08:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Guard first, ask questions later Smile

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 09:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I like to get one MB early for blitzing, followed by Tackle in Ranked / PO in Box. But otherwise yes, Guard first to win more games. (MB first to skill faster, if you're building for higher TV.)
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 16:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Tackle. Human Blitzers are fast. They should be chasing down and ripping Blodgers to shreds.
Find a way to have it on at least 1 guy before 16spps.
I would go with your general plan but sub in Tackle for Piling On.
Your plan is solid. I just think being able to cut down Blodgers is a real key for Humans.

Almost every opponent has them and they are often opponents best scoring threat(s).
Ghouls, Gutter Runners, Norse Runners, Catchers of multiple types, Goblins, Flings, just about any Elf... you need a plan to deal with them and that plan is TACKLE.

And the opponents that won't have them early on (heavy bash) will likely have them later for a ballcarrier.

Plus... how much is Mighty Blow and Piling On only going to do to take down some Orcs?
Reducing their AV to 8 and getting to reroll their armor (leaving your Blitzer prone btw) is not likely to send them off... you need to beat those types of teams with your SPEED and Agility and built in rerolls.

But reducing that Elf AV to 7 (or 6) and cutting right through his Defensive uses for Dodge... that will win you games.
When you see how fevered your Elf opponents are to target and try to remove your Tackler you will see how valuable they know he is to your chance of winning.

I like to aim for this with my ST access players on the Human team. Assuming I can keep them alive and they skill at a similar rate or course.
Ogre - Guard, Piling On,
Blitzer 1 - Guard, Mighty Blow, - Piling On, Tackle
Blitzer 2 - Mighty Blow, Tackle, - Guard, Piling On
Blitzer 3 - Guard, Tackle, - Mighty Blow, Piling On
Blitzer 4 - Mighty Blow, Guard, - Tackle, Piling On


You take piling on on the ogre?
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 16:43 Reply with quote Back to top

ph0enyx13 wrote:


Secondly, how do you build Necro wights most effectively?
Do you go guard, tackle? Straight tackle, mb, po like the blit ra/undead wights? One of each?

Both Wights with Mighty Blow, Piling On, Frenzy, Tackle, Juggernaut, Pro or Guard.

Doubles: Jump Up.

Human Blitzers:
1 Blitzer with: Mighty Blow, Piling On, Frenzy, Tackle, Juggernaut, Pro or Guard.

the other Blitzers: Guard, Mighty Blow, Piling On, Tackle, Frenzy, Juggernaut/Pro.
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top

That's a lot of frenzy. You play necro with 4 frenzy?
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 17:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=707568

Frenzy increases the knockdowns and this synergizes with Piling On and Mighty Blow.
You don't want to be standing with your killers, they could get hit by opponent killers.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 17:38 Reply with quote Back to top

ph0enyx13 wrote:
You take piling on on the ogre?


First skill every time in less the double or +Stat shows up.

PileOn ramps up his fire power and more importantly it now gives him a reliable supply of CAS for SPP so he can get to 16+ SPP faster.

When it comes to the blitzers here is what I have found.

A human team has a advantage that it has 5 players who can take MB/PO on normal rolls, do not ignore that advantage.

Now, depending on which DIV you play in, we will just take R/B.

Box I went MB/PO as first 2 skills on my blitzers, ignored all doubles or +Stats. Just be lined to MB/PO. What I found was that once my blitzers got that combo they skilled up much faster and I could start spreading out the TD SPP to other players, skilling them up faster. Just let the Blitzers grow from CAS SPP and the few TDs they got. Then at 31+ I started to add Guard/Tackle/Frenzy/Jugg across them and spread the skills out to make utility type players. THIS PLAN WILL NOT WORK IN RANKED.

In Ranked my current human team is kind of sideways right now with their blitzers. I rolled so many doubles that 3 of them are Blodge/SF types and two of them also have Diving Tackle. Now this is interesting but my ranked humans lack serious firepower. They rely on their legend Ogre to smash and kill.

Ranked humans you want to go with the more traditional, non violent looking team on gamefinder with G/T/MB and avoid PO like the plague. Which IMO gimps the Human roster and makes them under perform.

my 2 cents

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 19:34 Reply with quote Back to top

ph0enyx13 wrote:
That's a lot of frenzy. You play necro with 4 frenzy?


I have 3 and will have 4 if the lower SPP flesh golem gets to 51 spp.

As Dakka says, frenzy leverages whatever badass skills you have and usually necro, either through guard, chain pushes or fouling can find ways to not make it bite them in the ass as much.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 30, 2016 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, frenzy.

Frenzy is one of those skills that leverages the block dice in a big way into your favor, now granted it comes with a cost that your player could be put out of position and follow up a failed block into a -2db scenario.

BUT

Mass frenzy in the capable hands of a good coach is GODLY!!!!! It is hands down the best single blocking skill beside the lowly block skill. Why? Well you get two chances to knock down your foe. What ever happens after that is a mute point. IF every turn you knock down 4-6 of his players he is in essence playing on your terms for his next turn.

Iam a acolyte of the idea that skills that leverage the most important action in Blood Bowl, blocking dice, are hands down the best skills to take. Regardless of the "team" you play. Leveraging block dice in your favor will always give you a better chance to win games.


************ Correction of my Oversight **********

I just realized I left my fans wanting more, I left them with a golden realization that Iam correct but offered no wisdom on how to accomplish that. I will correct my mistake and now offer the wisdom.

Skills that effect the block dice themselves directly or in directly when you are blocking
*Block
*Dauntless
*Guard
*Frenzy
*Jugger: You need this skill if you have Frenzy. You do not have Jugger on a frenzy player and you will always have a 1/9 chance on a 2DB of negating frenzy on the blitz when you roll that stupid block/double down result on the first block. BTW, do not waste the reroll! Just accept it and scream to the heavens and move on OR when you skill up next take Jugger or Pro.

*Pro: I added that in because it is the poor mans frenzy or those two weak in the knees to actually take frenzy. A free reroll is golden, never overlook the power of a free reroll.

*Tackle: You need tackle on your killers. WHy? because usually the guy you really want to kill has blodge.


Having these skills stacked across your entire roster will never fail you.

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Last edited by PainState on Jun 30, 2016 - 21:14; edited 3 times in total
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