Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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 Posted:
Aug 31, 2016 - 13:44 |
 
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | Desultory wrote: | | I get the sense that the forums aren't a place where anything useful gets decided. |
I was trying to figure out a way to explain this to you. Although it's not entirely accurate, Christer reads and posts the forums too, and he is the one making the decisions.
However in this particular case you will find that the more or less exact motions you've gone through in this thread, someone else went through in 2015.
And 2014.
And 2013.
And that's a sober estimate. |
 thank you. I finally understand.
One last thing; I really think 'IDEAS and bug reports' should be changed to just 'bug reports'. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Aug 31, 2016 - 14:08 |
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First of all, I think the current system has the right idea. It stops min/max at lower TVs, yet gives people that want to the option of playing with massive handicaps a if they feel like it. But it has some major draw backs, which I simply want to smooth out.
My suggestion works with the current idea, but gives people the option to avoid being penalized without having to retire entire teams. And at the same time protecting mangled teams from being pounded repeatedly into the dirt just because the team has played too many games (irrespective of what's actually on the roster like in Dukes WE example).
It's literally the same as we have it right now but with the option to "opt out" at a price, plus rebuild "pause" function.
The current system works, this would make it better, by catering to more tastes. |
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Last edited by Mr_Foulscumm on %b %31, %2016 - %14:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2016 - 14:12 |
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| Desultory wrote: | | Sorry for hijacking the thread mattdakka IF I haven't supported your points with my latest posts. |
No worries.  |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Aug 31, 2016 - 14:41 |
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| Desultory wrote: |
I get the sense that the forums aren't a place where anything useful gets decided, so I think I'm boycotting from here on out. Sorry for hijacking the thread mattdakka IF I haven't supported your points with my latest posts. |
The thing is, Christer does read these threads and I believe he is interested in genuine ideas for a better way of performing the calculations for matchmaker.
The issues though, is often these threads can becoming a shouting match, making them very difficult to read and often the threads concentrate too much on what the problem is, but not enough details about the possible solutions.
Ideally the solution needs to be something that can be plugged into the matchmaker, without reducing the number of matchups too much. Sadly from my own perspective I admit that Christer's calculations are way beyond me, so I have no idea how to program a better algorithm. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:06 |
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The problem is not the algorithm, Duke. The problem is the problem itself: to optimize the most stable match for every players who activated. As soon as you think of a case that your favourite solution solves, other problematic cases resurface.
I'll add some examples later. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:25 |
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| thoralf wrote: | The problem is not the algorithm, Duke. The problem is the problem itself: to optimize the most stable match for every players who activated. As soon as you think of a case that your favourite solution solves, other problematic cases resurface.
I'll add some examples later. |
No need, I know exactly what you mean. smallman's Pact team is a perfect example of one solution that caused problems for others. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:30 |
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The problem with every division on the site is a few idiots that spoil things for other people. In real life these people would never get games. There is no solution to this |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:33 |
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| Garion wrote: | | The problem with every division on the site is a few idiots that spoil things for other people. In real life these people would never get games. There is no solution to this |
There is.. But I doubt Christer would let me  |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:34 |
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when you get right down to it, Box is nothing more than a downgraded version of Ranked Smack Tourneys.
You can fix the problems by simply completing its annexation into Ranked. Its already 3/4 way there, just take the final step. Make Box an optional feature for Ranked.
When you're tired of your team getting picked by high TV Box chaos teams and need an even strength match, go to gamefinder.
When you're tired of selling your team on gf, enter the Box...which then auto starts a Smack tourney when 8 teams have registered.
If this means we need more tourney admins, I volunteer. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:36 |
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| Garion wrote: | | The problem with every division on the site is a few idiots that spoil things for other people. In real life these people would never get games. There is no solution to this |
Sadly, I think you're right. The only option is to contribute with a good attitude and bblast smallman before activating. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:43 |
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| Garion wrote: | | The problem with every division on the site is a few idiots that spoil things for other people. In real life these people would never get games. There is no solution to this |
The real problem is that you really can't expect everyone to want to play the same way.
The bigger the league the more variety you'll have.
The smaller, more tightly focused the league the 'better' the games are likely to be. But the longer the wait for games.
If people can't wait for games they'll get what they get. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:53 |
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[quote="koadah"]| Garion wrote: |
If people can't wait for games they'll get what they get. |
Yeah, the system works!
What I meant to say is that Ranked is the superior way to play. But I'm lazy, and I don't mind getting silly games from time to time. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2016 - 15:58 |
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A house rule enforcing a minimum of 2 team re-rolls would mitigate the Chaos Pact minmax. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Aug 31, 2016 - 16:04 |
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Box is fast, requires zero effort to get games, and gives you a system to complain about when it screws you over.
In Ranked, if you get a shit game, you only have yourself to blame. And it also requires a bit more effort since it's up to you to judge if the transaction (game) will take place. You also have to make a product (team) that has market appeal.
It really is market economy vs centrally planned economy. When the market doesn't have a say in what products it finds acceptable, you get min/max bullshit abuse. Luckily, here people can still vote with their feet, taking their business somewhere else.
There, Ranked vs Box. We all knew it was time for that! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 31, 2016 - 16:16 |
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I said it a long long long time ago and to this day I still think its the best solution -
Just make match maker work purely on TV, all match ups made to the closest TV anything less than 1000Tv = 1000TV for match making purposes.
Then have an all powerful dictator that rules over blackbox, observing games. Lets say Shadow for arguments sake. If he thinks your team is too lame for whatever reason then he gives you a warning, if you continue to be a douche then he deletes your team or kicks it out the division in to League where it is stuck forever
That's the closest we would ever get to real life gaming groups.
If someone is a tool, they would get told where to go. |
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