Semitence
Joined: May 18, 2013
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Sep 28, 2016 - 14:45 |
 
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Sep 28, 2016 - 19:09 |
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I really need someone to explain why diving tackle makes any sense on a player who can trivially be marked out of the game with one worthless lineman who WANTS to stand next to him anyway.
Now, if he had break tackle already then at least you could try to reposition him, but wait, he also doesn't have stand firm, so he's not that hard to push away if necessary anyway.
I like diving tackle a lot, I really do, but on your immobile road blocks it's never made any sense to me. |
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akaRenton
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
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Sep 28, 2016 - 19:55 |
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For the roster you play, +MA > Break Tackle > Tackle. If you are going to switch this to a conventional roster, perhaps not. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Sep 28, 2016 - 23:31 |
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| akaRenton wrote: | | For the roster you play, +MA > Break Tackle > Tackle. If you are going to switch this to a conventional roster, perhaps not. |
Considering my Mummies, it's almost worth converting for tournament play. there are still a couple majors before the Fumbbl Cup this year, time to rebuild into a proper undead team.
So, think towards this being a proper undead team (at least for the time being) |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Sep 29, 2016 - 00:46 |
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Repositioning a mummy even without break tackle is trivial if you need to. Just blitz it free. If you let fodders tie up your mummies before you position them then i guess no skill is worth taking but break tackle.
The use of dt is tying up as many (possibly good) players as possible without them easily getting away.
Then you can obviously mark the carrier if need be and good luck to any team getting away from it once it has sf. Nonvashers will have troubles even without stand firm. Best shot being a -2d or a 4+ dodge with ag4. And those aren't the odds i want when a mummy is marking my carrier.
We can debate if there are better skills for it. Probably there are, it's too personal to come up with a yes/no answer.
Explaining the value of s5 blodge to such an experienced as you feels weird, so i gotta ask: was your question serious or for the sake of debate itself? |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Sep 29, 2016 - 06:05 |
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+MA & Break Tackle looks good. Dodge & Break Tackle is nice too.
I'd prefer the latter for the team - you want a mobile guard that can sit on the middle of the field and reach the two sides. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Sep 29, 2016 - 10:08 |
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| thoralf wrote: |
I'd prefer the latter for the team - you want a mobile guard that can sit on the middle of the field and reach the two sides. |
We call that a wight  |
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Bram
Joined: Jan 04, 2008
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Sep 29, 2016 - 11:24 |
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | thoralf wrote: |
I'd prefer the latter for the team - you want a mobile guard that can sit on the middle of the field and reach the two sides. |
We call that a wight |
+1 |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Sep 29, 2016 - 12:09 |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Sep 29, 2016 - 12:48 |
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It took 4 pages to arrive at SG. What took so long? |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Sep 29, 2016 - 14:13 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | It took 4 pages to arrive at SG. What took so long? |
My signature. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Sep 29, 2016 - 15:42 |
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | We call that a wight |
My mistake. When I said the sides of the field, I was referring to the line dividing the wide zones from the main field. Think of a Beast or a Necro with a single Golem.
Wights play a different role. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Sep 29, 2016 - 16:21 |
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Thoralf i don't see that as a mummy role. Their job to me is not assisting in relevant parts of the pitch. Their job is to stuck the opposition in a big brawl in the middle of the pitch while ghouls and wights take care of the rest (aka ball).
That's their principal duty to the team. The problem is agile (or even ag3) teams will avoid the brawl by dodging away. Forcing undead to play a game that's not their own.
That's why i see DT as a huge benefit. It won't be as easy for the opposition to evade the fight. Even ag4 will have to plan their turn without the players in contact with this players or rely on a blitz to free themm or a 75% dodge.
So now you're forcing the opposition to play out of their comfort zone and in yours.
DT is poor man's tentacles. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Sep 29, 2016 - 16:57 |
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| Uedder wrote: | Repositioning a mummy even without break tackle is trivial if you need to. Just blitz it free. If you let fodders tie up your mummies before you position them then i guess no skill is worth taking but break tackle.
The use of dt is tying up as many (possibly good) players as possible without them easily getting away.
Then you can obviously mark the carrier if need be and good luck to any team getting away from it once it has sf. Nonvashers will have troubles even without stand firm. Best shot being a -2d or a 4+ dodge with ag4. And those aren't the odds i want when a mummy is marking my carrier.
We can debate if there are better skills for it. Probably there are, it's too personal to come up with a yes/no answer.
Explaining the value of s5 blodge to such an experienced as you feels weird, so i gotta ask: was your question serious or for the sake of debate itself? |
I didn't question the value of ST5 Blodge, I questioned the value of diving tackle on an MA3 AG1. I understand perfectly well what diving tackle does and how you should use it, but, on a mummy, it's pretty much a vanity skill because I have little difficulty imagining any half way competent coach simply being able to ignore it.
Consider your answer though. You are using your blitz to free your mummy. Really? I mean you can do this, but damn it just seems as though that's a huge win for the opponent. If you want to stick diving tackle on the ball carrier make a blodge/ss/dt ghoul. Now that's a defensive player I can get behind. Of course the value of ST5 vs. ST3 is huge, but that ghoul can get where you want him to be very easily, and you can still use your blitz to make it more difficult for the opponent to dislodge him (at least with tackle, matchup dependant of course).
I don't really understand the fascination with diving tackle on dwarf blockers either, or flesh golems or black orcs... Yeah, it causes a turn over now and then, but usually it's on one of the last moves of the turn for your opponent. It really only seems to have value when you are playing non-elfs anyway, as then they don't even try the AG3 dodges and you get to punch more things.
Diving tackle is one of those skills which is great if you can run multiple iterations of it, or if you just run it on one or two specialized players. 'Randomly' having it on a road block kind of player doesn't seem to serve any particular purpose to me. Unless you want to argue that you now start using that player in a different role. Which is fair enough, but again, why do I want to use my freaking Mummy in a role he's really not well suited to when he's already perfectly suited to standing in a crowd and bashing them down? Because the teams which don't want to be in that crowd are the teams where him having diving tackle doesn't help much as they will position so that he cannot ever mark multiple players anyway.
And if you are playing other bash... well then they don't really give two craps about standing next to him anyway. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Sep 29, 2016 - 17:42 |
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| Uedder wrote: | | Their job to me is not assisting in relevant parts of the pitch. |
What if it could, out of sudden? Any Dorf coach will tell you that 4 MA is better than 3 MA for what you have in mind. As far as I am concerned, the lines between the wide zones and the middlefield is the most important part of the pitch.
A 5ST break tackler with Blodge Guard that can move 6 sq is a more potent threat to many teams than a road block that removes 33% chances of dodging to other road blocks.
If you go DT, then SF would make sense. Between
(1) Guard, Block, Dodge, Diving Tackle, Stand Firm
(2) Guard, Block, Dodge, +MA, Break Tackle.
I'd pick the second build. But I'd be quite happy with the first one.
Blodge-Guard-SF is amazeballs, so much in fact that I might be tempted to skip the double and pick SF. |
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