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Poll
Dark Elf runners yay or nay?
Yes - Strictly runners
35%
 35%  [ 23 ]
Yes - Passers
20%
 20%  [ 13 ]
Never - More AV7 sucks
37%
 37%  [ 24 ]
Pie!
6%
 6%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 64


noxnoctum



Joined: Dec 08, 2014

Post 22 Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 17:26 Reply with quote Back to top

And if yay, is skilling them as a semi-passer a good idea?

Lorebass has added the correct 4th option
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 17:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Here is a good place to start. There's a few others around discussing runner/no runner ideas.
gpope



Joined: Jun 04, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm a big fan of passing options in general, but Block + Dodge + Sure Hands are all generally going to be higher priority than any passing skills... so that's a long way to go before you even start to think about specializing them as a passer, even assuming you don't pick up any interesting stats along the way.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 20:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa


Aahhhhhhhhh


HAhahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 20:49 Reply with quote Back to top

They can be fun, but they are probably sub-optimal. They take a fair number of skills to be usable- in the beginning, I'd rather have a blitzer handle the ball that the runner.

I think developing him as a passer is silly. But as a runner who can dump-off in a pinc to save a drive? Maybe sorta useful, but not worth the price tag or Av 7. Think a development of Dodge, block, sure hands, NoS.

But man, that's an expensive runner. Inefficient, but can be fun!
Doofr



Joined: Nov 04, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 21:09 Reply with quote Back to top

If you want use the dumpoff tactic, no need of block, just need surehands, dodge, NoS , pass to become realy annoying.

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johnnih



Joined: Feb 26, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 21:28 Reply with quote Back to top

From my, admittedly limited, experience I think dump-off is underrated. You often hear that BCs are not supposed to me hiut anyway, but it happened most BB games I've ever played/watched and the defense rarely have a great plan for handling the dump-off if the offense planned for it. If more delf runners were developed for a running tactic with d-o as a safety, I'm sure people would regard it as very annoying - if they don't already.

I'll vote "passers" on your poll, but not passing in the traditional sense. It's a runner with a safety button for those situations where the blitz gets to him. A build along the lines of what doofr is suggesting.
Gartch



Joined: Sep 07, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I voted passer, but I take dodge first, and sometimes leader (if I have only 2 RR) before passing skills.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2017 - 23:49 Reply with quote Back to top

licker wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa


Aahhhhhhhhh


HAhahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa

Admirable restraint!...

If I'm taking a runner, and there is some debate over whether it's worthwhile doing - I'll go with dodge, sure-hands, accurate hoping to catch a +MA/+AG. If he gets only normal rolls, then I'll take Wrestle, Side-step and tackle/leader so he can have a defensive role too.

[edit] didn't vote - all polls should have "pie" options.


Last edited by Rbthma on Dec 13, 2017 - 01:10; edited 1 time in total
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 00:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I haven't played Dark Elves much, but the Runner seems interesting enough to at least give it a try. Dump-off seems like an interesting curve-ball type skill, that could be a real nuisance for the opponent. It's not uncommon for an elven ballcarrier to get exposed over the course of a drive by an ill-timed snake and, even if you can't get it into the hands of a player, the ability to at least have some control over where the ball goes when he gets sacked could make a big difference. I've only played 8 games with my League DE team, and I can already remember one game where Dump Off totally saved my bacon after a bad snake Smile

However, I would like Dump Off a lot more, if it allowed the Runner the option to just do a free hand-off to an adjacent player.

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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 01:27 Reply with quote Back to top

The runner isn't about the dump-off for me - good coaches will simply mark or blitz the receivers and screen the runner from progressing. There are a few situations where dump-off is interesting - vs. teams like Skaven/vampires or elves when they have leaping ball-hawks cause if the ball is on the ground it's likely gone. You can adopt a slightly different cage too when running up-field for the score.

That being said, I've experimented with it a bit but on pro-elves since the catchers have Nerves of Steel to start - I even had a catcher with dump-off and pass at one point. Overall though, the doubles would of been better spent on guard, mighty blow or juggernaut though. In fact I recall several matches where the dump-off/NoS play disappointed me severely
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 02:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Dump Off requires good planning and positioning.

I remember one game where I purposefully left my runner open to a hit because I had no option to protect him from a hit. BUT, using him to screen my witch elf could prevent her from being marked or hit, and with dump off, she was easily able to score the following turn.

The play in question came after I stole the ball on my opponents offensive drive. Any other options I had to pick up the ball left me no real out in the event they could hit the ball carrier.


Runners, as players, suck.
That said, they have uses if you get creative
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 04:21 Reply with quote Back to top

The assassin though is total garbage. I would never take an assassin. Stab is pretty bad and Shadowing with MA6 is just ... yuck!

He puts the 'ass' in assassin. Two of them, in fact! xD

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 04:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Runners are hawt.

Never tried them as passers. Dodge first is good with them. Then a stat is good.

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Relezite



Joined: May 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 05:13 Reply with quote Back to top

My current opinion is the AV7 on witch elves is all the AV7 you want, and the witches are better than either of the other two units.

I could be convinced otherwise tho.
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