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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 16, 2018 - 00:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
YES. Let's do that. But let's also remember that in an RPG you are on the same TEAM with that Lamer and in Blood Bowl you actually get to KILL that Lamers characters... in fact it is part of THE POINT of Blood Bowl... to KILL the other team.


Yes, I could make a 'cheesy fraud extermination team' and start entering it into tourneys - just play to kill vs the cheesers and ignore the ball. But, unfortunately, I live right down the street from the big factory that is churning out cheesy fraud characters. If I kill one, then two more will take their place.

I agree that it would be kind of amusing though Smile

Catalyst32 wrote:
I lost soe of my point because I got called into work. BUt cool story Bro. DON"T FEAR THE PIMPERS. They aren't good coaches.


It's not about fearing the pimpers. Also, note that I wasn't saying anything about the actual skill level of the players involved. I won't name names, but I've seen major-winning coaches picking gratuitously in Ranked to farm (or repair) teams as expediently as possible, ahead of upcoming tournaments they wanted to enter.

I love your story about the Swedish coaches, btw. Would love to see a replay of that game where you trashed the chorf team Smile

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 16, 2018 - 05:21 Reply with quote Back to top

You hardly need a cheeser Box tea to rip through Fraud Pimped Ranked team... you just need TACKLE.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 19:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I'll just leave this here Laughing

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 19:55 Reply with quote Back to top

The elves in XFL are all big Ranked teams?
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 20:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, the ones that get to the semi-finals are. There certainly aren't any High Elf teams in the Blackbox that look like that ..

It's nice to know that now, every tourney will be as wholesome and cheese-free as that one!

/sarcasm

(Edit: btw, I don't mean to criticise the team that eventually won it. I believe they were one of the few genuine ones)

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
morehouse



Joined: Sep 29, 2005

Post 12 Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Well, the ones that get to the semi-finals are. There certainly aren't any High Elf teams in the Blackbox that look like that ..



When you post something but are, in fact, totally wrong...

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=759098

Wink
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 21:15 Reply with quote Back to top

that's ONE team though, which:
-was used as an example earlier,
-has had a load of games played,
-a load of stat freaks,
-and a strong coach

an average (as in 150 CR) coach could get an elf team to say, 2200 tv in ranked without too much trouble

that same coach could not do the same in blackbox. and you all know it

he's not totally wrong. he should just have said "many" instead of "any"
morehouse



Joined: Sep 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 21:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Elves that big in box with average coaches....

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=582918
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=608241
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=862186
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=579279

Yawn.. this is tiring... I think I'm gonna go back to enjoying some Blood Bowl with this super fun tournament about to start. Y'all enjoy the forum griefing though!
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 22:00 Reply with quote Back to top

morehouse wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
Well, the ones that get to the semi-finals are. There certainly aren't any High Elf teams in the Blackbox that look like that ..



When you post something but are, in fact, totally wrong...

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=759098

Wink


They have a -389 cas difference and 10k in their treasury, Morehouse. Perhaps take another look at some of those teams in that XFL and see how they compare .. Wink

Also:

..
Chaos Chosen 33 (14%)
..
Dwarf 22 (10%)
..
Nurgle 30 (13%)
..
Orc 22 (10%)
..

They've had some lucky skill rolls, sure. But, luck is luck.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 22:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
that's ONE team though, which:
-was used as an example earlier,
-has had a load of games played,
-a load of stat freaks,
-and a strong coach

an average (as in 150 CR) coach could get an elf team to say, 2200 tv in ranked without too much trouble

that same coach could not do the same in blackbox. and you all know it

he's not totally wrong. he should just have said "many" instead of "any"


Ya'll are arguing over pointless silliness. MrT *is* a strong coach... with a CR of 153. He plays ogres man, he has the big ones. I don't think his CR matters, except to point but the very arguments you are trying to use are undercutting your argument! He's just a dude who wanted to make a high TV elf team so he did. Are you trying to imply that an "average 150 CR coach" who farms a ranked elf team to 2200 is a bigger threat than a really dangerously good coach with an 1800 TV box team? Or a 2000 box team? Why are we even talking about this? CR is only a measure of recent performance anyway. Why is it in the mix here? I feel myself getting dumber just thinking about all of this!

I am really trying not to go down the rabbit hole here, but I think there are a lack of people in this thread making a point that needs to be made: There is cheese in both divisions.

Every time someone yells at "you box coaches" or "you ranked coaches", a little piece of my coaching soul dies. Most of us, I dare say, who play both divisions see regularly that there is a certain flavor of box cheese that is maddening, and a different tasting variety of ranked cheese that is also rancid. People who only play in ONE division trying to tell me and the other folks who keep our heads down and put up with the particular flavor of BS brought to us by a select few coaches in each division roll our eyes.

The rules have changed substantially in the past years. Changes have been made to schedulers, meta events, gamefinder, chat. Things move and shift over time. Try not to put me and the majority of FUMBBL into a little package with sweeping generalizations of waht "box coaches" or "ranked coaches" are like. How about you stop posting here and try some games in your hated division and see how it goes? Perhaps what you take with you into the game matters as much as the filthy cheesers who ruin it for... a small percentage of very vocal folks?

tl;dr - why can't we all just get along, man? Play some games, mock the cheesers and move on.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 22:21 Reply with quote Back to top

@happygrue: I know what you mean Dude. It's always nice if people can just get along and we can all be one happy, united community. Ideally, that's what I want as well - why wouldn't I? I know I've been doing a lot of griping in this thread, but my intention is not to cause trouble or start a flame war. I feel the need to speak out on this, because I care about the site and I see some real issues here:

1) For some of us, the Blackbox-only tournaments were the only respite that we had in the tournament scene from the sort of nonsense that is plain to see in that example. Now, that is gone and, potentially, all tournaments are open to this.

2) I am genuinely concerned about the impact that this sort of thing may be having on FUMBBL's reputation externally. How do we know that this isn't contributing to putting off newer players to the site?

Sorry, but I just can't stay silent on this.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 23:17 Reply with quote Back to top

here the stats of the long running teams in each division:

Ranked
https://fumbbl.com/p/teams?group=&race=&order=5&nav=1

BlackBox
https://fumbbl.com/p/teams?group=&race=&order=5&nav=10

Notice in ranked, the teams at the top (1000+ games) are diverse. Additionally, many have losing records and/or negative cas differentials.

Notice in BlackBox every team over 1000 games is a predator claw team. Most have winning records AND positive cas differential. In other words...an easy cake walk.

The evidence shows which division has the harder road.

_________________
Hail to Berserker Eric! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Norscan Warrior!
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2018 - 00:08 Reply with quote Back to top

@Arktoris: I'm not saying that every team in [R] is farmed. I know there are some players there, like yourself, who like a challenge and take on all comers. But, my point is that there are enough farmed teams in there that it pollutes the environment, especially on the tournament side (which is what the farmers are usually targeting). Most teams that have over 1000 games in Ranked are being played for the fluff, history, etc., like your charioteers, and tend to be more genuine. The cheesy teams are usually farmed for a specific tourney, which their coach is targeting and, once they've got their prize, they are then discarded. All those coaches want is a competitive team, with minimal effort, to get the shiny goody. They have no intention of playing the team long-term. So, I don't think they would show up on that particular radar.

Regarding the Box teams, it's true that (currently) all of the 1000+ game Box teams are bash, and I would agree that Box has had some problems with a small number of 'bad actors' that monoactivate. However, 5 teams is a very small sample size, and things start getting a lot more diverse if you look down at the 500+ game teams. Which is perhaps an indication that the diversity has been improving more recently (especially since the removal of PO).

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2018 - 00:58 Reply with quote Back to top

the point isn't farming doesn't happen in Ranked. The point is, it happens in the Box more often.

If I were to try and make a killer dwarf team, I'd have a lot easier chance doing it in Box...especially with all the stunty teams from the JST. Yum Yum.

_________________
Hail to Berserker Eric! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Norscan Warrior!
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 18, 2018 - 01:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
the point isn't farming doesn't happen in Ranked. The point is, it happens in the Box more often.

If I were to try and make a killer dwarf team, I'd have a lot easier chance doing it in Box...especially with all the stunty teams from the JST. Yum Yum.


I don't agree that farming in Box happens 'more often'. Those 1000+ teams that you pointed to are still taking on all comers and are coached by highly experienced coaches, so they are not really 'farming' in the sense that the cheesy [R] teams are. Those teams have taken their fair share of knocks and most have experienced big ups and downs in their TV cycles and had to replace players. The Roid Rage Babes are destroyed, almost beyond repair. They, the Slime Barons and the Nordiques have also not been played in the past year and a half.

There are a couple in there that have a habit of monoactivating, but there are very few people actively doing that on a regular basis.

I agree though, that farming a bash team in [R] is harder than an elf team, so perhaps the problem is more prevalent with elf teams. But still, practically every tourney now is going to be exploitable by those cheesy elf teams.

Yes, your killer Dwarf team would probably be easier to build in the Box, but it will still have to go up against other bash teams, high-CR coaches, dp-heavy teams, Smallkosp .. so I don't see how that is being 'farmed'.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
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