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Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 19, 2020 - 20:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't consider this as THAT obvious. The wording about when the ball lands is not that super clear so I strongly disagree with obviousness statement.

Adding this kind of messages to the client just produces more work and noise and would then require new client releases if someone encounters a new bug. You also would have to keep the list in sync with the bug tracker etc.

But I would say you can abandon this threat as there is a fix for this about to be released, hopefully soon.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 19, 2020 - 20:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Even in the event you think the "turn" is unclear:

Under "team rerolls and the kick-off table"
"A team re-roll may not be used for any catch roll when the ball lands: however, players may use the Catch or Pro skill to try to re-roll the catch roll"

What's unclear about that in any way?

It's obvious.

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Last edited by ArrestedDevelopment on May 19, 2020 - 21:07; edited 2 times in total
Bluegill87



Joined: Nov 29, 2015

Post   Posted: May 19, 2020 - 20:36 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
ArrestedDevelopment wrote:

This isn't something weird or completely unaddressed in the rules, anyone who's got a copy of the rulebook - and everyone "should" - should know this.


Seriously?

I own a Bible but I couldn't recite Jesus's full lineage back to Abraham.


This is just win lol.

I know the rule now after somebody pointed it out only recently to me and even I could see myself forgetting it purely spur of the moment.
Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 19, 2020 - 20:54 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:


Under "team rerolls and the kick-off table"
"A team re-roll may not be used for any catch roll when the ball lands: however, players may use the Catch or Pro skill to try to re-roll the catch roll"


Point taken, I simply did not remember that phrase anymore.

Anyways, the problem should be gone soonish.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 19, 2020 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:


Seriously yes.

This is as basic as "you can't use team rerolls outside of your own turn". The equivalent of you "knowing who jesus is" if you want that allegory.

I've had it abused vs me, by someone who absolutely did know what he was doing since he'd posted in multiple instances of these threads before. I continued as it was just an (S)L game, but frankly losing drive+match (it was in h2) directly due to something contrary to the rules of the game made the whole exercise feel even more of a waste of time than canceling would have been.


I would love to see it fixed again, and would not accuse most people of "abusing" a bug, most things that could be malicious are usually ignorance, but the fact is - this is a rather obvious bug which happens to come into effect on a rather swingy event plenty hate already, and this house rule would simply lead to a lot of anger and frustration from those who do know the rules

You might as well house rule team rerolls can be used on your opponent's rolls Smile


My perspective is that even though I have posted multiple times in this thread, and have certainly discussed this before. In six months time, in the heat of battle, there is still a fair chance that I will forget. Wink

If I do it against you feel free to demand a forfeit.

But as I managed to forget that stunty ignores tackle zones and got pushed out of bounds, you'd probably be well ahead already. Wink

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 19, 2020 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd never ask for a forfeit for something like that - cancel or replay (tourney). Like I said, it's usually not malicious. But expecting people to know/play by the rules is rather ... fair? Very Happy

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: May 20, 2020 - 00:32 Reply with quote Back to top

not really. any game with multiple pages of rules, people are bound to forget some of them. like how frenzy and crowdsurfing works. but seriously, there are a LOT of rules. with a client that 'knows' most of them, it's perfectly reasonable to forgot the lesser used rule - and this is definitely a lesser used rule. similarly, basically every rule related in the bug reports are typically lesser used.

If there was less than, oh, 20 rules, then sure maybe. But there are 100s of rules (when you consider that a rule like the one being discussed is a corner case, and all corner cases are there own seperate rules). That's WHY a client is so good for this kind of game. And, in table top with no client, you can freely do something, remember that rule after you've already done the action, and fix it. You or your opponent can also look up the rule, and by mutual agreement, not count that time towards your 4 minute limit. Or if you both forget the rule (reasonably likely) simply no one would know any different, and it's fine.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 20, 2020 - 02:24 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I'd never ask for a forfeit for something like that - cancel or replay (tourney).


If, like the case that sparked this necro, you played the day before deadline day. You agree to replay but on the day, the other coach turns up but you cannot make it.
Would you want the forfeit but be too polite to ask for one? Twisted Evil

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:

Like I said, it's usually not malicious. But expecting people to know/play by the rules is rather ... fair? Very Happy


"Fair" maybe, but not very realistic. I'll bet that there are many coaches who haven't had a thorough read of the rulebook in the last ten years. Wink

Even if we did, a lot of us are old geezers. It won't take us long to forget them. Mr. Green

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 20, 2020 - 02:52 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I'd never ask for a forfeit for something like that - cancel or replay (tourney).


If, like the case that sparked this necro, you played the day before deadline day. You agree to replay but on the day, the other coach turns up but you cannot make it.
Would you want the forfeit but be too polite to ask for one? Twisted Evil

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:

Like I said, it's usually not malicious. But expecting people to know/play by the rules is rather ... fair? Very Happy


"Fair" maybe, but not very realistic. I'll bet that there are many coaches who haven't had a thorough read of the rulebook in the last ten years. Wink

Even if we did, a lot of us are old geezers. It won't take us long to forget them. Mr. Green


I'd actually eat the forfeit for no showing in that scenario.

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