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Poll
Should the new rules eliminate natural oneturners?
Limit Max mv to 9, to hell with natural one turners
31%
 31%  [ 29 ]
No way that will favor bash way too much
41%
 41%  [ 38 ]
One Turn Pie
27%
 27%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 92


NickNutria



Joined: Jul 25, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 16:07 Reply with quote Back to top

One turners are fun, they are rare and get fouled quite often, so they don't survive that long. I've got no problem with them, I think grinding your way to an eight turn touchdown is much more boring for the opponent.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 16:11 Reply with quote Back to top

One turners are great in a league setting. The whole league knows they need to wreck them, but they give you an advantage while you have them. In one off games like the box, they aren't all that good because there's no overarching goal to go for, and no set of known opponents all with the same player base that they play in.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Grinding till turn 8 should be changed as well.
The two things are correlated: people one turn because opponent stall till turn 8, otherwise they would not need to 1TTD.

As an aside, considering that now passing seems improved, a half could last 7 turns.
8 are really too many and encourage a grinding strategy.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 16:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Grinding till turn 8 should be changed, agreed; but the half should still be 8. I think the ideal half (in terms of gameplay and enjoyment of the players, not about winning) is score around turn 5, so your opponent has a shot (but not a great one) at equalizing.

So we're not trying to design the game so that grinding an entire half is good. We're specifically trying to design a game where the best result is that you score early enough that your opponent still has a chance to score.

HOW do you do that? Million dollar question, but I think that's where it should go.
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 17:08 Reply with quote Back to top

keep them.

Stop whining and take kick n' pass block.

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 17:22
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

If you were to change chain pushes to make the opponent choose direction, you may as well just remove chain pushes entirely and consider that situation "immovable" much like stand firm. No need to have the added complexity of a system where you can't choose which player gets moved as that takes out the strategic element entirely and kills off the ability to perform some pretty cool plays.

That being said, I don't particularly have a strong opinion either way in terms of chain pushed and one-turners. It is what it is.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

As as aside, Pass Block is not triggered if just a hand off to the one turner is declared and since the Pass Blocker is set up before the one turner, he can be avoided (by just setting up the one turner away from the Pass Blocker).
Kick instead, is a quite good soft counter to 1TTD, I agree (although High Kick can happen).

About 8 turns: the longer a Half lasts, the more bash-grind running game and safely holding the ball instead of passing it are favoured.
This is why I'd like 7 turns.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 20:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Strider84 wrote:
given there are some new rules to be released, I would love to see the natural one turner possibility removed by reducing the max movement to 9 instead of 10.

one turner chances are still high enough, and you can go for skills like jugger and grab to specifically support it, but just having to dodge away all game then run in your one turner ist just not a fun time of blood bowl for me for either side.


I agree - ban Standfirm. Stop the Arms Race.

I agree - ban Mighty Blow. Stop the Arms Race.

I agree - ban Dirty Player. Stop the Arms Race.

I agree - ban Guard. Stop the Arms Race.

Regardless of natural or not, these things don't arise outta nowhere in reaction to nothing. Most folks don't think OTTD at the very outset of the game, unless

They are kicking.
Have the ability to cobble one together.
Are AV7 en masse or on specific players that can cobble it together.
The other team is a qualified pain in the ass which exposes you to getting blown off the pitch merely for trying. Trying things like...

Heavy ballpop risk and dubious ball recovery reward.
Getting in the way.
Disengaging and running away.

Let's just be honest about it - you create your own problems in BB. If you don't wanna get stunted on with a OTTD, perhaps stop trying so hard to build hard teams to dominate and depitch on offense while going "I played brilliantly, I should receive rewards for it with no recourse for the other guy" Wink


Last edited by mrt1212 on Aug 03, 2020 - 20:33; edited 1 time in total
Shraaaag



Joined: Feb 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 20:30 Reply with quote Back to top

13mv players should be eliminated, but not through rule change, but on the field and under a boot.
There's no touchdown that can be done without rolling dice. And it is your job to make it as hard as possible for your opponent.

To do a 1 turn touchdown with a 13mv player, you need to roll a pick up, handoff and/or pass and catch (Depending on the kick-off). 3 GFI. Your opponent can even place their players so your player has to make a few dodge rolls. At best (with a touchback and no opposing players) it's 3 gfi (2+), at worst you have to roll more than 6 times with varying difficulty.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 21:06 Reply with quote Back to top

At best it's not 3 GFIs, if you can chainpush you can gain some squares.
Or with Quick Snap, free extra square, just 2 GFIs with a MA 10 player assuming no chainpush.
Also, with High Kick you could not have to pick up the ball, you could catch it and then just hand it off to the one turner (if we are talking about MA 10 one turners we are probably talking about Skaven and Wood Elves, both with agile and fast players able to catch a High Kick).
I used High Kick as example because it counters Kick.
Dynamix



Joined: Jan 21, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 21:25 Reply with quote Back to top

One turning is part of the game as much as bashing the heck out of the opposition with Claw/MB etc

Natural one turning though , I can see the resistance to this , but if that is eliminated other extreme skill combinations need nerfing too whatever their flavour
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 21:38 Reply with quote Back to top

One turning is an extreme game changing thing, unlike Clawmb.
A game lasting 1 hour can be won with just a turn of 2+ rolls which sometimes has no counter in terms of set up.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
One turning is an extreme game changing thing, unlike Clawmb.
A game lasting 1 hour can be won with just a turn of 2+ rolls which sometimes has no counter in terms of set up.


"I was not rewarded for my brilliant, unimpeachable play, because this dynamic exists and is used to essentialize the game into a series of 2+ rolls" he said as I executed a '4 players on the pitch OTTD' with one push.

Perhaps your counter is the very way you play the game up until that essentialized integral point. Wink

Rat brain - "I hit the correct levers at the correct time, where's my treat?"

Skaven brain - "By any means necessary"
Muff2n



Joined: May 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 22:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Well there is something more lame about a natural OTTD - the defence cannot do anything about it really. Yes, there are some skills and an attempt at setup, but you don't really get a go. When the opponent scores in two turns you at least had a go to counter what they are doing.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 22:27 Reply with quote Back to top

If you are constricted to a Platonic Ideal way to play BB which insists 8 turn offensive drives are objectively good, I suppose there isn't.
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