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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Too bad that Box Trophy forces you to play 4 races only for 25 games each, then you have to make another squad and so on.
Boring.
Anyway, funny to see people not even playing in the Box talking about competitive playing.
koadah, if you think playing in the Box is an easy way to reach Legend by facing noobs, play in it and you will see. Very Happy
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:32 Reply with quote Back to top

CR is ELO functioning. After a game, one coach gains X CR points and the other coach loses X CR points. When you don't chose your opponents, it means that your average opponent CR will be the started CR (150 on FUMBBL). That list is not a big surprise.

Middle CR in a division can't indicate if it's competitive or not, it's 150 for all divisions.

With gamefinder, your average opponent CR can be 150, or a lot less, or a lot more, it depends on who you chose to face.

Then you have to realize that CRs in Blackbox division are theorically* calculated on the same base for every coach while they depend on coachs picking / not picking, accepting to be picked / not accepting to be picked in Ranked division.

*theoricaly cause it also depends if you only play tier 1 teams, or tier 1 + tier 2 teams, or only tier 3 teams for example

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Actually, I'd like to dodge low CR coaches (reverse picking), if I could choose, and play only vs Super Stars and Legends, but then I would struggle to find a game.
So, I accept that in order for the Box to work, I have to face low CR coaches.
Just played a game I won 2-0 and earned 0 CR, for the record. Very Happy
Imagine how much I'm happy of 1 hour spent for 0 CR gained.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah I realize we don't have the volume to do CR based scheduling, which is too bad. But, it still means that box isn't competitive, even if you can't directly pick like you could in gamefinder. (You certainly still can influence it though.)
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:41 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Too bad that Box Trophy forces you to play 4 races only for 25 games each, then you have to make another squad and so on.
Boring.
Anyway, funny to see people not even playing in the Box talking about competitive playing.
koadah, if you think playing in the Box is an easy way to reach Legend by facing noobs, play in it and you will see. Very Happy


It is funny to hear people talking about playing "competitively" when they are usually playing lower-rated opponents.. Wink

Go play White Isle (or similar). When you are in the Prem, I'll call that "Competitve".

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
steinerp



Joined: Sep 18, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Pulled more games to get to 1000 total. Margin of error at this point is between 3 and 4% at this size. So all the division are within the margin of error of all others but in this smaple box has produced slightly more competitive games

<=1 score <=2 score <=3 Score
Ranked 63% 87% 98%
Box 66% 90% 99%
League 66% 89% 99%
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:43 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah, you just talk about me doing something, when you will start to show me something you do?
You just point me to Purplechest's page, you tell me what league I should play, Major etc.
What about you actually starting to play games in the Box and show me that is not a competitive division by getting easy wins vs noobs as you are implying?
At least I'm a Legend, what are you?
Just a Legend forum troll?
I can tolerate trolling for a while, then I get sick and tired of people not playing games talking like if they were super experts about Box, when they don't even play in it.


Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 10, 2020 - 15:48; edited 3 times in total
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:44 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Actually, I'd like to dodge low CR coaches (reverse picking), if I could choose, and play only vs Super Stars and Legends, but then I would struggle to find a game.
So, I accept that in order for the Box to work, I have to face low CR coaches.
Just played a game I won 2-0 and earned 0 CR, for the record. Very Happy
Imagine how much I'm happy of 1 hour spent for 0 CR gained.


In my opinion, only CR speaking, this statement is only true since last CR calculation (since around 1 year I would say but i don't remember well when it has been done).

Now, it would be impossible to win CR points if you would face the same low CR coach during 100 games for example. It would be 0 or 0.01 CR gained for a win, then 1.00 lost for a draw and 3.00 lost for a lose. At BB, even against a Rookie you can't win 99% of your games. I supposed this has been done against extreme cherry-picking in Ranked division but that's hard to deal with in Black Box or you have to only play Tier 1 teams.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not complaining about the 0 CR gain, just wanting to show that playing vs lower CR coaches is not a great way to earn CR compared to the time spent (not tactically interesting either, I learned nothing as the CR 0 suggests). Smile
Being accused of picking in Box is outrageous.
I don't play Ranked for that reason, I play Box only and I'm considered a noob-picker by some people.

As an aside, if you are a Legend, of course you will face often lower CR coaches, because Legends and Super Stars are less common, no surprise, but the opponent of a Legend could be a Legend too (or even a worse coach but with a better race in that specific match-up), since the matchmaking is blind.
It would be more interesting to consider the Box matches of a bigger sample size of coaches' ranks, not just Legends.
At least in the Box, if I face a lower CR coach, I didn't pick him.
I just activate, the scheduler arranges the game (and I tend to activate many teams at different TVs, not just 2200 Chaos or 1400 Chaos Renegades to ambush weaker teams).
If the Ranked is full of good and very competitive coaches, they can play in the Box and improve the gameplay level of the division.


Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 10, 2020 - 16:17; edited 1 time in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 16:17 Reply with quote Back to top

this thread has really gone off the rails. Can we have a new one in which people can put their full wish list on, and that be it? maybe submit our wish list to an admin who has locked the thread, then they update it over time, so it doesnt turn in to this....

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 16:29 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

I can tolerate trolling for a while, then I get sick and tired of people not playing games talking like if they were super experts about Box, when they don't even play in it.


That's thing Matt. People don't bother trolling anyone else because no one else keeps going on about how competitive they are or their division is.

Oh wait. Yes, I do keep trolling Geggster too. He keeps winning tournaments and says never says anything about it.

A little bit of bragging helps promotion and encourages competition. Mr. Green

But yes, your constant going on about about deleting Ranked division and making hardcore Box the only way to play a "competitive" division on Fumbbl is pretty irritating too.

I have played many games in Box, Ranked, tournaments, leagues.

I have run hundreds if not thousands of events on Fumbbl. Events that actually work and stand the test of time. Unlike your events that you say no one will sign up to.

No one is saying that you are not a good coach. You are obviously very good.
But if you want people to believe that you are "competitve", then (some) people will want to see you play the big games, vs the big opponenets, when all the pressure is on. When there are maybe 100+ specs and there is a trophy on the line.

For all your talk, I would be very surprised if there was no one in the Ranked division who picks harder games than the games than the games that you get in the Box.

Even if there was no one. I'd probably still troll you because of thhe way that you try to come across all virtuous and "competitive" and whine about how lower rated coaches don't want to play against you.

IMO, if you are playing the shark, why should they?

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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 16:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Do you have to have completed a season to enter a tourney e.g. played 20 games, or could you enter with less games played? If you haven't played your full quota of games after the tourney, does your team still have to redraft?
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 17:38
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Malmir wrote:
Do you have to have completed a season to enter a tourney e.g. played 20 games, or could you enter with less games played? If you haven't played your full quota of games after the tourney, does your team still have to redraft?


According to the proposals as stands:
- Yes, you can enter with less games. You can have played any amount of games when you enter a tournament
- Yes, you would have to redraft after completing the tournament, and games in the tournament wouldn’t count for earning cash towards a rebuy (I don’t think)

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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 17:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
this thread has really gone off the rails. Can we have a new one in which people can put their full wish list on, and that be it? maybe submit our wish list to an admin who has locked the thread, then they update it over time, so it doesnt turn in to this....


+1

Can we stop talking about who has a bigger e-peen and talk about Christer's plans and wish lists and ideas please.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 17:56
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
Garion wrote:
this thread has really gone off the rails. Can we have a new one in which people can put their full wish list on, and that be it? maybe submit our wish list to an admin who has locked the thread, then they update it over time, so it doesnt turn in to this....


+1

Can we stop talking about who has a bigger e-peen and talk about Christer's plans and wish lists and ideas please.


Good luck! I made that request 10 pages ago Very Happy

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