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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 12:47 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I am fully aware of what you meant. 5x 15. But I also think you should read what I wrote and think about it - we're trying to cater to the full site and any potential newcomers, not just the top end of the tourney scene.


Well all I can say is I made a mistake thinking it would be easier for me in the new rules to have a competitive team for Majors, when in fact it's every bit as unlikely as before, probably more. So your "top end of the tourney scene" is going to be even smaller than it is now.

Might have a better chance with a badly prepared team than before but that's a very different perspective than what I initially hoped.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 12:52 Reply with quote Back to top

If it works out as i think, "badly prepared" will be the new normal. You'll just need to rely on coach skill, as will the vast, vast majority.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing?

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:02 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
7 players through, 2 skills each.
6 players through, 2.5 skills each.
5 players through, 3 skills each.
4 players through, 4.5 skills each.
3 players through, 6 skills each! Legends!

Like, a player like Debog (7658 Blodge vamp), could still redraft after 420 games!

Arguably tussock made the best contribution to this thread for several pages.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Will it be viable to run a team with 1 Legend, 2-3 players with max 3 skills each and the rest fodder with 0 skills for several seasons?
Thinking of Elves with Legend ball carrier and supporting staff of scrubs.
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:30 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
Like, a player like Debog (7658 Blodge vamp), could still redraft after 420 games!


The way I'm calculating it, even with 20 games a season, 420 games is 420k (huh that was easy). Blodge is two chosen single skills, 2x20k = 40k. 2x +ST is 160k. The +AG is 40k. Base cost for a Vampire is 120k (assuming Vampire will eventually exist again, it might go up). So that's 780k for the one player, leaving you with 470k for the rest of the team, so you can get 10 Thralls and 1 RR. Good luck. Wink
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Speaking of Vampires (and Chaos Dwarves, and High Elves, and Khemri, and Norse, and so on), will there be a "parking" division where existing teams can go to wait and see if those rosters get released eventually? (I'm losing track of what has been raised before so apologies if this has already been covered.)
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:37 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I am fully aware of what you meant. 5x 15. But I also think you should read what I wrote and think about it - we're trying to cater to the full site and any potential newcomers, not just the top end of the tourney scene.


Then you are going to fail.

People who cannot play a lot of games do have the time to keep rebuilding teams.

You needed to reign in the freakazoids but allow casual coaches to keep their teams at a reasonable size.

I don't think that it would be too much of a shocker to a newcomer that they couldn't build a Majors team in one season.

Having said that, one of my wishes from day one has been that the site could have some stock teams that could be cloned off the peg so that people could just play without all this stupid team pimping.

"Team builders" are not only hardcore Majors players who want freakazoid players that will win them a trophy.

Some people just like playing at a certain TV because they prefer it when there are a certain number of skills on the table. Teams have reserves, teams have enough RRs. Though, everyone like a "nice" player if they can get one.

You should be able to reign in the pro teams/coaches without hammering the casual coaches.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I personally am not doing anything, aside from preparing to adjust, and Christer's formula is setup so that casual coaches can still hit the cap+. If your view is "casual coaches want to keep players indefinitely to build legends" then yes, I'm sorry, the ruleset is entirely against it unless they want to random primary roll every skill on said legend. That's not on me, or Christer or anyone else, it's built into the game.

Who's to say the major's scene even stays the same anyway?

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 13:58 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
we're trying to cater to the full site and any potential newcomers, not just the top end of the tourney scene.


Preach.

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SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 14:12 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
7 players through, 2 skills each.
6 players through, 2.5 skills each.
5 players through, 3 skills each.
4 players through, 4.5 skills each.
3 players through, 6 skills each! Legends!

Like, a player like Debog (7658 Blodge vamp), could still redraft after 420 games!


Let's count debog for 15 games long seasons!

Value = 110+20+80+20+40+20+80 = 370k
Re-draft price=Value+43 PrevSeasons*20k=1230k
Re-draft price=Value+420 game fee=930k

Well, with 20 games long seasons:
Re-draft price=Value+420 game fee=790k

So it highly depends on the season length.

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-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.


Last edited by SzieberthAdam on Aug 14, 2020 - 14:21; edited 1 time in total
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 14:21 Reply with quote Back to top

So I think we have a genuine disconnect here.

AD is saying that a newcomer will be able to enter the major team, because there won't be teams that have played 100 games to be perfect in that major, and so a team with only 15 games played will be competitive, and a newcomer will be able to play 15 games. Therefore, majors will be more inclusive.

cdassak is saying that there are many tournaments per year. Playing 15 games per tournament isn't going to be possible for a newcomer (possibly unless they do literally no other games on the site?). Therefore, majors won't be more inclusive. Worse, 15 games per tournament isn't going to be possible for the people that are already here and play a lot, therefore, majors will actually be less inclusive.


Sorry cdassak, but I disagree.
A) I don't even play in every major right now, and I play LOTS, and I've got pimped out 2500+ teams. It's completely possible to have a very healthy major scene, without having every coach in every major. Therefore, making the barrier to ONE tournament more inclusive, should in fact make the overall majors scene healthier.
B) If you are not 'major building' and rather 'playing to win every game, particularly the next one', under this ruleset, that should be far closer to the same thing. Therefore, if you can only play 70-100 games per year (say for instance, the box trophy), then you are in fact prepping your teams for the majors. Therefore, I don't think anyone currently on the site and playing majors will have an issue maintaining that 70-100 games per year required for participation in every major. (For example, you have played more than 100 games in the last 4 months alone. Yes, special circumstances, but you would need to be playing more than 3 times as many games as normal before it was an issue.)



@tussock: Where do you get 910 as a good minmax redraft from? I'm sure there are teams that could do that, but redrafting at less than 1,000,000 means teams that are WORSE than a starting roster. I would expect the standard minmax redraft to be much closer to 1050-1100 (depending if you want to include a 12th player on your redraft, and depending on your team.)

Assuming you only redraft players with 1 season of experience, if you redraft 5 players from 1 season, you would only have 150k-200k for skills. For players like Debog (who have 260k of skills before any seasons!) that's an issue. (On top of the fact that you did something off with your season calculation for him as mentioned above.)
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 14:47 Reply with quote Back to top

SzieberthAdam wrote:
So it highly depends on the season length.

And there we have our answer.

The season length should be exactly the length allowing Debog to re-draft.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 14:47 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I personally am not doing anything, aside from preparing to adjust, and Christer's formula is setup so that casual coaches can still hit the cap+. If your view is "casual coaches want to keep players indefinitely to build legends" then yes, I'm sorry, the ruleset is entirely against it unless they want to random primary roll every skill on said legend. That's not on me, or Christer or anyone else, it's built into the game.

Who's to say the major's scene even stays the same anyway?


Ah. From

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
...we're trying to cater to the full site and any potential newcomers, not just the top end of the tourney scene.


I wondered if you may be "on the council" Wink

But as for

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
... That's not on me, or Christer or anyone else, it's built into the game


I'd have thought that you'd all know me by now. I'm the "the commissioner's word is law" guy. Wink

When you are running a kind of the league that the rules were obviously not designed for, I think that you have a little more wiggle room.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 14:51 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
When you are running a kind of the league that the rules were obviously not designed for, I think that you have a little more wiggle room.

What if the commissioner wants to keep the wiggling to a minimum?

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 14, 2020 - 14:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a better question is 'is our league one that the rules were obviously not designed for'? And I think we all have different answers to that, but that Christer seems inclined to say 'no' and 'our league is very close to one that the rules were designed for, but slight tweaking might be needed'.
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