Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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 Posted:
Aug 25, 2020 - 20:36 |
 
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The thing is , before the new rulleset , fumbbl was an idealy playing ground for everyone.
You could pay at low tv, mid tv , high tv and vey higgh tv.
You had plenty tourney for low tv teams, RRR, Naf tourneys .
For the mid tv you had the minors and the brawls
and of top of that you had the black box trophies.
And high tv and very high tv had 6 major in a year.
When i hear that people dont enter major because of monsters teams and thats a problem...i got diffculties..first they are plenty others tourneys and second it doesnt take so many game to have a team over 2000tv if you realy want enter the major scene.
And an easy fix would have been some majors with tv limitation.
Now very hight tv and high tv days are over.
There will be only games for low and mid tv, how is that a progress ?
And i didnt even talk again about the skill selection.
Seeing optimal builds and 80% of teams look a like, will be damn boring for me.
Sure it will be more competitive in a way, but we dont need that to know who are the best coaches here, we already know them .)
So yeah i think coah like me , Dominik, maybe Malmir, cdassack or lautrehamon or some others might stop to play this game they loved so much and played so much...
Its almost more depressing that the covid thing . ^^
Ps: Smallman should be so happy , he will have easily now his ogre block tentacles , his 2 killers, his leader lino and his blodger darkie . ^^ |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 25, 2020 - 20:43 |
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| Doofr wrote: |
Ps: Smallman should be so happy , he will have easily now his ogre block tentacles , his 2 killers, his leader lino and his blodger darkie . ^^ |
https://fumbbl.com/help:BB20ChaosPactSetUp
Renegade Linemen lost S and P access, so no Leader lino, only Thrower who costs 75k and Claw has been slightly nerfed (so, killers will be more expensive and less effective than now). |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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Aug 25, 2020 - 21:04 |
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We should definitely rename the site smallbbl. |
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Recovering FUMBBL addict. |
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Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
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Aug 25, 2020 - 21:29 |
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Yep. To me the only real argument I have heard against allowing High TV progression by setting a season size high enough that a redraft cuts teams to 1700 or higher is in regards to Majors. Some people do not want high TV teams to have an advantage in these tournaments. Remember that under the proposal you can redraft at any time so you can keep your TV as trimmed as you want.
I think I have a name for it.
I shall now call it Major TV Envy. Perhaps even Major TV Envy Syndrome. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Aug 25, 2020 - 21:36 |
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| Kondor wrote: |
And I would argue that having the possibility to start games at about 1700 TV AND having many games played around 2000TV is ok. Those teams will be cut back down to 1700 after each season.
2000TV is ok now I don't see why it would not be OK in the new division. There are people who don't like to play in that high of a TV. Under Christer's system they could redraft any time they wanted and bring their TV down as far as they want to.
It is deemed a competitive division. Why are people afraid of competing at high TV? I think it is just fear when it comes time for Majors. |
Because I need to min max my team or I end up playing all my games against chorfs. People don't spin in box in American time specifically because they don't want to play the tv 2000+ murder teams that monoactivate there. If the redraft cap was 1700k I would likely delete my team and make a new one whenever I got to the range where I would need to play vs teams that were 2000ish tv. It would also make majers inaccessible because people would need to play multiple games at an unfun tv and hope they dont get the whole team murdered if they wanted to play in a major. I know in my league the majority of players chose to take a new team and reenter the fresh team division each season rather than play in the vet team division and that the only teams that ever play in vets are the ones with multiple stat freaks.
| Kondor wrote: | Yep. To me the only real argument I have heard against allowing High TV progression by setting a season size high enough that a redraft cuts teams to 1700 or higher is in regards to Majors. Some people do not want high TV teams to have an advantage in these tournaments. Remember that under the proposal you can redraft at any time so you can keep your TV as trimmed as you want.
I think I have a name for it.
I shall now call it Major TV Envy. Perhaps even Major TV Envy Syndrome. |
I wouldn't really call it envy so much that playing high tv is less fun than playing mid/low tv |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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First i need to stop being lazy and have a devolved L 2020 thread, stick with me, ill get there.
Second, high tv BB is not dead. i expect teams to top out well over 2000 before the rebuy if they choose to.
third, if the cap and costs/benefits do not appeal, they can very easily be changed.
fourth, I think people wanting very high TV caps and rebuy levels, say 1700. have yet to see what sort of teams that would produce. And have yet to engage with the monstrous results it would generate.
fifthly, i REALLY think we need to play it and feel it played to see if the current cap/reward levels are correct. But as a place to start, surely the suggested cap (1300) or nearby is the right area to launch from? |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 25, 2020 - 22:00 |
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Yes, let's give the new rules a chance. They could not be as terrible as they look now without some actual gameplay involved.
We can still whine later if necessary, with more experience to do it! 
Think of Christer: he has to implement them (which is a boring and time consuming task), I imagine it's not great to update the rules with people moaning about them before they are even implemented.
Not saying that the rules are perfect and we should jump with joy, but they are official and we have to suck them up in the competitive divisions. |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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Aug 25, 2020 - 22:26 |
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I will let you give a try to thoses new rules , i will just stick to my leagues teams and we will see.
But i realy think i need to find a new game and im very sad of it. I will have no fun in chosing the skills. Its realy just not only high tv. |
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Last edited by Doofr on %b %25, %2020 - %22:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 25, 2020 - 22:31 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | | First i need to stop being lazy and have a devolved L 2020 thread, stick with me, ill get there. |
Cool. If just anyone started the thread, people might fear that Christer might not be following it.
| PurpleChest wrote: |
Second, high tv BB is not dead. i expect teams to top out well over 2000 before the rebuy if they choose to. |
Cool. That is higher than people have been saying so far. The problem is, you still have to slog your way up there, only to be cut right down once you make it.
| PurpleChest wrote: |
third, if the cap and costs/benefits do not appeal, they can very easily be changed. |
I assume that the figure of 1350 was chosen after considering point "fourth".
| PurpleChest wrote: |
fourth, I think people wanting very high TV caps and rebuy levels, say 1700. have yet to see what sort of teams that would produce. And have yet to engage with the monstrous results it would generate. |
We're yet to see and our imaginations may be faulty, but this why some want old-style progression and will be using TV caps.
| PurpleChest wrote: |
fifthly, i REALLY think we need to play it and feel it played to see if the current cap/reward levels are correct. But as a place to start, surely the suggested cap (1300) or nearby is the right area to launch from? |
Some people already know that they do NOT want to cut their teams down to 1300, 1350, 1500, or some, even 1750. 1750 we hear, will be a nightmare anyway.
They definitely don't want to do it every 15 games. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Aug 25, 2020 - 22:39 |
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The quoteception! I'm feeling dizzy. |
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Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
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Aug 25, 2020 - 22:54 |
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I had another thought that I really cannot refute as I don't have the data or expertise to prove it one way or another. It is the most valid reason I can see to force a redraft down to 1300. The whine of I don't want to play against X team at Y TV is irrelevant because for every person who does not want to play high TV, there is one who does.
The only valid reason I can think of to severely lower the average TV of games played in ranked and box is to simply reduce the TV range people play at. You may say " duuh Kondor," but stick with me here. The more narrow the TV range and if you can keep the same number of coaches, it is easier to get a black box activation. If you eliminate the high TV teams you may even be able to eliminate TV matching and rookie protection as the TV difference would be much smaller and inducements may be more worthwhile. On the ranked side, a smaller TV range also increases the number of matches people may deem as acceptable.
This may be true but that comes with the assumption that you will have the same number of coaches activating at least the same number of teams on gamefinder or through the automated draw.
If instead, coaches move to a division with fewer limits or utilize fewer teams this will not happen. Also, if it just results in people building whatever the strongest bashing team at this level turns out to be, you could simply lose more new coaches. Or, you could have the worst of both scenarios. Quite a few coaches move to a different open league and those strong players who stay dominate by sweet spotting with their strongest teams which also turns off new players.
It is a gamble and I don't know which way it would go. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| Doofr wrote: | | So yeah i think coah like me , Dominik, maybe Malmir, cdassack or lautrehamon or some others might stop to play this game they loved so much and played so much... |
I don’t know who lautrehamon is, sorry, but I would be very surprised, shocked even, if any of the others stopped playing blood bowl. |
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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Aug 26, 2020 - 00:26 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | Doofr wrote: | | So yeah i think coah like me , Dominik, maybe Malmir, cdassack or lautrehamon or some others might stop to play this game they loved so much and played so much... |
I don’t know who lautrehamon is, sorry, but I would be very surprised, shocked even, if any of the others stopped playing blood bowl. |
Why ?
Its becoming an entire other game that we played for years . And i saw here Cdassack and Malmir criticising what its becoming.
Dominik said he will stop too. I think a big part of the tourney/ big tv scene will stop or will play a lot less on fumbbl at least.
But dont worry other players will come and arrise.  |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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| Posted:
Aug 26, 2020 - 00:33 |
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| Kondor wrote: | I had another thought that I really cannot refute as I don't have the data or expertise to prove it one way or another. It is the most valid reason I can see to force a redraft down to 1300. The whine of I don't want to play against X team at Y TV is irrelevant because for every person who does not want to play high TV, there is one who does.
The only valid reason I can think of to severely lower the average TV of games played in ranked and box is to simply reduce the TV range people play at. You may say " duuh Kondor," but stick with me here. The more narrow the TV range and if you can keep the same number of coaches, it is easier to get a black box activation. If you eliminate the high TV teams you may even be able to eliminate TV matching and rookie protection as the TV difference would be much smaller and inducements may be more worthwhile. On the ranked side, a smaller TV range also increases the number of matches people may deem as acceptable.
This may be true but that comes with the assumption that you will have the same number of coaches activating at least the same number of teams on gamefinder or through the automated draw.
If instead, coaches move to a division with fewer limits or utilize fewer teams this will not happen. Also, if it just results in people building whatever the strongest bashing team at this level turns out to be, you could simply lose more new coaches. Or, you could have the worst of both scenarios. Quite a few coaches move to a different open league and those strong players who stay dominate by sweet spotting with their strongest teams which also turns off new players.
It is a gamble and I don't know which way it would go. |
Frankly in the past months its became more difficult to find high tv box games than low/mid tv box games with the trophy.
If i see a draw of 6 players or less , im activating some lowmid tv teams if not, there is lot of chances im missing the draw.
I think thhe only complains are about majors, but once again it take how many game to have a 2000 +tv team ? And there is so much other tourneys for other tvs. And like i said we could even have a major with limited tv and there is only 6 majors by year.
But the final point is i think that Christer just want stick to the officials rules like he always did, and i understand that so thats it. |
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Last edited by Doofr on %b %26, %2020 - %00:%Aug; edited 2 times in total |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Aug 26, 2020 - 00:33 |
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What does high and low TV Chess look like? |
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