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amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 17:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Like a lot of teams without core starting skills, they are going to struggle in the new format, I think. And they lost the ability to easily build killers out of their linemen. And running 3 big guys without the other players having block at first is a recipe for a lot of turn-overs.

Even their thrower got safe pair of hands instead of sure hands, and his utility at low tv is not great, especially when you have an AG4 elf ready to ball carry with quick access to blodge.

I think the way to think of them is that three monsters carries a lot of risk, but also a decent upside, if they make their rolls. If you are going to try to use the monsters for their upside, the rest of the team should be bit to be as minimally risky as possible. I like the rat ogre over the Minotaur, just because you can reliably blitz with them now, unlike the Minotaur.

Sadly, only the DE (AG4 dodging and ball carrying) is an above average reliable player out of the gate. They got a bit of a downgrade, but can be a fun team to play still if you are willing to ride the roller coaster of 3 big guys.
Uber



Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 20:59 Reply with quote Back to top

What hurts them the most is Guard/Mighty Blow becoming a secondary skill for them. It seems like an unnecessary nerf to me.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 21:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes. I think that the roster would have been fine with General and Strength primary skills on Renegade Linemen, Mutation as secondary skills.
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 21:33 Reply with quote Back to top

they definitely got nerfed a bit, both from the skills and from the difficulties in getting a maurauder built up in a lower tv environment.

It'll be very hard to build an efficient killer squad. Now, they'll be a weird team that do odd stuff.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 22:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Theyre fine. They have just been pushed towards being big guy centric, which was always what they were meant to be. However due to flaws in previous editions they were a min maxers dream.
They still have an elf, their big guys have easy access to block. They'll do fine.

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amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 04:32 Reply with quote Back to top

big guy reliable access to block does make a big difference, if they can get the SPP. Garion is right- they will definitely be big guy centric, which is sorta cool, if you can balance the risk.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 15:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you're all overestimating the worthiness of big guys past s1.

As i said earlier - "same as before, but less efficient". You start with the three bigs and jettison the mino as soon as you have a killer going, which may take the entirety of season 1 instead of just 5-10 matches as it used to, depending on how you do it.
When we drop the mino from the starting roster at rebuy we effectively have a net gain of 150k that can go into skills. So season 1 at end we probably rebuy a delf, said killer, and a few other skilled marauders or a guard big depending on how the rolls have fallen.
From here on it's simply just a matter of cycling who you keep and skilling replacements, the delf is really not necessary to retain every single season as he take minimal games to get skills, so we focus on the killers - big guys even with guard are pretty inefficient TV to retain, so we may even try random rolling them near season ends with the intent to cycle on poor rolls (especially so if one gets killed mid season and we'd be rolling a rando S skill just before the rebuy).
Our "project" marauders who are killers in training simply don't spend their SPP after block before rebuy so they cost less to purchase, then buy the doubles etc after game 1 the next season.

As a result of binning the mino as soon as a killer comes in, you can afford to keep 2-3 killers long term with careful cycling and planning while maintaining the same horrific low tv pact have always been known for. You're effectively only 60k higher in skill cost with 3 killer marauders (although i would have one guard instead of 3 killers), and DF is not bloating your TV as FF used to.

Even if you do focus on big guys G/SF is probably better than block on at least the ogre and the troll for the same cost.

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dabassman



Joined: Feb 17, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 18:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Mabe another way would be not focusing so much on team development, keeping TV low, and buying the incredible Hakflem Skuttlespike for every matchup.
DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 18:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Will they not have four big guys now - thought they were getting a rat ogre? Four big guys would provide some chuckles but yes, like many of the teams starting with few core skills they are going to be worse than before sadly (and they weren't great before anyway :/).
dabassman



Joined: Feb 17, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

THey can only take 3 out of 4.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 20:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I think I would only ever take 2 anyway if I were trying to play optimally in the new edition.

2 with Block and another skill... all they need

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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 12:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
I think I would only ever take 2 anyway if I were trying to play optimally in the new edition.

2 with Block and another skill... all they need

Are you thinking Block + Random Str Skill?

Mighty Blow on a Linemen or Block on a Big Guy are both Secondary skills. You can probably keep a couple of Big Guys with block going for three seasons. Getting to block in the first place may take a while though.

You are going to want to play against some Stunty teams!
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2021 - 15:47 Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="Lyracian"]
neubau wrote:
leap isn' really an option in 2020 anymore, isn't it?

It is an option but Dodge & 2 'eads is going to be better.


WAIT. You can DODGE in and out of Multiple Tackle Zones on a 2+? That would be an OP change for Elves. I doubt that.
A single 3+ LEAP beats multiple 2+ Dodges or Dodges with multiple TZ involved in the Dice MATHS when Sacking the Ball through a Cage or Screen.
Mind that we are talking about a Sacker not a Sweeper. Anybody can be a Sweeper. Not just anyone can be a Sacker.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2021 - 16:19 Reply with quote Back to top

In BB2020 Leap is modified by the opponent Tackle Zones on either the starting or landing square (the square with more Tackle Zones is considered for purpose of calculating the malus).
So if you Leap into a classic cage the Leap has -2 modifier.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 30, 2021 - 11:57; edited 1 time in total
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2021 - 16:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Think it's -2 because Leap allow you to ignore the 2nd of the 3 tackle zones
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