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Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: May 27, 2021 - 18:30 Reply with quote Back to top

No reason to fight over a mistake. They happen.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 27, 2021 - 19:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Jopotzuki wrote:
You corrected but then continue about the free foul saying it is an extra foul. Even though the faq just recently stated that only 1 foul per turn is allowed.

I didn't realize the FAQ was out. Mea culpa then.
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: May 27, 2021 - 20:49 Reply with quote Back to top

So the final conclusion is the skill is utterly useless then? It is not free in any way, it costs you your foul action, it is only allowed if the opponent is prone and you can get banned on a double. Pile driver does not provide any benefit whatsoever over a regular foul (which does not cost you a strength skill slot).
PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: May 27, 2021 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

/boo
Willownen



Joined: Aug 26, 2018

Post   Posted: May 27, 2021 - 21:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, at least the FAQ clarifies, that you don't need to roll for Armor again, if that is broken during the Block. But yes, Pile Driver was made a lot worse overall.
Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 27, 2021 - 22:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Willownen wrote:
Well, at least the FAQ clarifies, that you don't need to roll for Armor again, if that is broken during the Block. But yes, Pile Driver was made a lot worse overall.


Yes you do. It just states that you perform the foul after having rolled for armour and injury for the block knock down.

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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: May 28, 2021 - 02:27 Reply with quote Back to top

The only benefit is that you can foul with the same guy who did a block... hence the term "free" foul because technically the guy who blocked is doing a 2nd action (the foul).

Whether this is a benefit or not is rather dubious / circumstantial.

I used it on a Pump Wagon on a table top snotling game, but i had bribes and a biased ref in support. Would I use it on an Ogre in a Human team? Highly doubtful!
Willownen



Joined: Aug 26, 2018

Post   Posted: May 28, 2021 - 08:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Candlejack wrote:
Willownen wrote:
Well, at least the FAQ clarifies, that you don't need to roll for Armor again, if that is broken during the Block. But yes, Pile Driver was made a lot worse overall.


Yes you do. It just states that you perform the foul after having rolled for armour and injury for the block knock down.

Ah right, yeah. Reading comprehension 0/10 for me.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 28, 2021 - 19:52 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
The only benefit is that you can foul with the same guy who did a block... hence the term "free" foul because technically the guy who blocked is doing a 2nd action (the foul).

Whether this is a benefit or not is rather dubious / circumstantial.

I honestly feel like something is amiss and "free foul after successful block" can't be all the skill does.

Should Piledriver allow you to re-roll the injury roll (assuming that block broke armor, otherwise you'd have to roll for the armor and then injury) then you could consider this skill as offering an interesting alternative to Dirty Player.

But a foul action after putting someone down with the block action is likely to pointless due to having little to no support (especially if other opposing players are around) and resulting only in your player getting ejected. And that's with the successful block in mind, which doesn't have to happen.

Unless they changed the way fouls work in Blood Bowl 2020 and I didn't notice?
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: May 28, 2021 - 19:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Well there is only a change in how sneaky git works. So the block + pile driver + sneaky git + dirty player combo might work in itself, but even then it is a lot worse than a 'regular' sneaky git dirty player foul (which is more TV efficient, has higher chance of success and is more versatile).
Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: May 28, 2021 - 22:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, pile driver is effectively worthless.

You don't want a player which is fouling to waste TV to be decent at blocking too. You don't want to put your fouler on the ground. You don't want to use a secondary skill to accomplish any of these things.

I can see no situation where I want to use it over some garbage lino with dirty player. That's just cheaper and better.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 29, 2021 - 09:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that multiple crap skills have been thrown in just to make random skills be more... um... "random".

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Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: May 29, 2021 - 18:17 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think it is inherently bad to have some dud skills to make randomization meaningful, but the groups should be roughly equivalent. They aren't even close. General skills are mostly useful with 11/12 at least decent. Strength it's more like 8/11. Agility 5/12. Passing skills are hot garbage. Even for throwers, stupidly. Only 4/12 are even decent for throwers, 1/12 or 2/12 for most anyone else.

The random selection of skills is poorly constructed, in my opinion.
Jopotzuki



Joined: Oct 07, 2011

Post   Posted: May 29, 2021 - 18:19 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
I think that multiple crap skills have been thrown in just to make random skills be more... um... "random".


And to have 12 skills in all categories, for the randomisation.

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 30, 2021 - 06:11 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
I think that multiple crap skills have been thrown in just to make random skills be more... um... "random".

That in itself is not the problem. The problem is they decided to make crap skills, instead of something that could be situationally useful.
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