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Poll
Do you think the New BB2020 Necromantic Horror are less powerfull than in the past?
Yes
46%
 46%  [ 14 ]
No
36%
 36%  [ 11 ]
The same
16%
 16%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 30


Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 22, 2020 - 22:08 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Grasshugger17 wrote:
And they look like a sheet on a washing line.

Those white Spirit Host icons are just placeholders.
You can see the right Wraith icons here:
https://fumbbl.com/help:EtherealT


I was referring to the official miniatures.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 23, 2020 - 00:12 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Well, if we want to talk about anti-fluff:
Orc teams should not have a Thrower (the fluff clearly states they don't pass, they steam roll their opponent bashing their way to endzone).

I think we have that with the new 2020 Orc team. What use will the Thrower* be now!


*Sure there are some niche uses and stretch play when you really want to make that 2 turn TD but most of of the time not going to help.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 23, 2020 - 01:18 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not that the Orc Thrower is OP, but he's just anti-fluff.
An Orc Runner with MA 6, Sure Hands, AV 8, Animosity would make much more sense.
rvlvr



Joined: Nov 21, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 08:24 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
It's not that the Orc Thrower is OP, but he's just anti-fluff.
An Orc Runner with MA 6, Sure Hands, AV 8, Animosity would make much more sense.

True, this would be quite nice.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 12:09 Reply with quote Back to top

And I think he should have PA 4+: 3+ would be too good for an Orc Runner, considering that a DE Runner has PA 3+.
rvlvr



Joined: Nov 21, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 05, 2021 - 14:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like to see more running backs in general.
Bedge



Joined: Mar 24, 2020

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Any idea - will Necro 2020 go-live when BB 2020 ruleset is implemented?

I am painting: 6 Zombies, 1 Ghoul, 1 Wraith, 1 Flesh Golem, 2 WW, 3RR for 985k
neilwat



Joined: Aug 01, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 18:32
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Bedge wrote:
Any idea - will Necro 2020 go-live when BB 2020 ruleset is implemented?

I am painting: 6 Zombies, 1 Ghoul, 1 Wraith, 1 Flesh Golem, 2 WW, 3RR for 985k



I would say that is highly likely.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 02, 2021 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top

argos_72 wrote:
How to use Wraiths a part blocking is a mistery. Also their cost is a mistery for a player who cannot pick up the ball! It is a light version of a Mummy, he cannot do anything than block... block.. and block. With "no hands" what else can he do??

I didn't see many coaches trying to pick up the ball with Wights when playing as the Necromantic team, because that role was mainly filled by Werewolves (who want SPP for Block and Dodge skills), so I don't really see the problem.

Failing that, you have Ghouls as the most common choice for a ball-carrier. Mainly because Wights are used for blocking.

If anything, I think the new Wraiths become better. Because their inherent Side Step will make it harder to remove their influence from the pitch. You want that ball harder to pick up? Stick a Wraith near it. Opponent blocks you? Stay close to him, so you can show him how to punch properly on your next turn for free when he either fails to down you or fails the Foul Apperance check.

Yes, they lost the ability to hold the ball, but considering all of the above, I don't think this is a big deal.

argos_72 wrote:
Zombie are now more useless than in the past.

Why? If I understand correctly Zombies only lost the ability to pass. It's still possible to do a pickup and a handoff to someone who is more suited for carrying the ball around. Other than that they are the same as they always were - being cheap, disposable annoyance.

The main change is that important players cost more, so you are likely to run with 5-6 Zombies on your team - instead of just 3 - but I find that change to be a good one, considering how strong overall the Necromantic team was in the past and that it will involve more thinking in regards to creating their starting roster due to cost involved.

argos_72 wrote:
So you start the match with maybe 2 players who can launch the ball and that's it. or maybe you decide to get rid of one Wraith and purchase a Ghoul (which usually has the duration of a meteor in the sky with his 7 AV).

Necromantic Horrors are not supposed to be a passing team and the changes seem to reflect that (no passing on Zombies, Wraiths can't pick up the ball at all, etc.).

I find these changes to be good, because - in my opinion - the Necromantic team could generally outshine the Undead team:

1) Werewolves with Claw + Block + Mighty Blow are really good killers.

2) Necromantic's outshined Undead's positionals in general. Not only Werewolves aree faster than Ghouls - they're also less susceptible to removal (Regeneration, AV8).

3) Mummies - as good as they are - usually take on the role of re-roll eating machines (unless they get lucky and roll a double on level up). Flesh Golems can pick up Block right away and can Stand Firm from get-go, so their combination is more powerful with just a single level up.

With the 2020 changes Werewolves' Claw gets slightly weaker (still good for a killer though), there are fewer players who can semi-reliably secure the ball (making them more valuable to the team) and it will take a bit longer to be able to afford all of their positionals, but that's about it.

Edit:

Garion wrote:
I'm not a big fan of this ghoul and human catcher for dedicated fouler shtick.

Yes it is the correct thing to do tactically speaking.

What I do not like about it is- its anti fluff. Catchers and ghoul runners shouldn't be your dirty players, they are you receivers and carriers... or should be.

I think people underestimate how valuable Ghouls are as potential ball-carriers for the Necromantic team.

You get 4 players in total who can pick up the ball on 3+ (2x Werewolves, 2x Ghouls). Each time you foul you risk breaking armor and rolling a double on the injury (1+1, 2+2, etc.), leaving you with less players able to handle the ball.

There is also the question of cost. Sure, you "only" have to pay 20k for the Sneaky Git and another 20k in TV for Dirty Player, but that's 40k on top of 75k needed to hire that player. Are you going to foul often enough with a player who is worth 115k to justify the cost? If not, wiil it be worth the investment in terms money and SSP(it's not likely the skills will be random)?

I'd argue that at such price you might consider buying two Zombies (80k) and do the standard mass-fouling of pretty much any opposing player, because a lot of teams don't have a bench at fairly low TV (at least not from what I have seen) to keep their TV low AND even their Linemen cost more than a Zombie.

It could be a bit different for the Undead team (2 Wights, 4 Ghouls), but the question of cost (95k with just Sneaky Git or 115k with Sneaky Git and Dirty Player) still remains.

Also, your Ghoul will be a prime target for enemy killers, meaning you would have to take special care in protecting the ball-carrier AND the fouler. If your fouler is your ball-carrier, you will have to sacrifice team re-rolls to pick up the ball, your ball-carrier fouler will STILL get hit (because ball-carriers are obvious targets, always) and you will be risking your drive each time your ball-carrier tries to foul someone and fail.

The risk may be lower due to Sneaky Git, but it's still there. Which, again, brings me back to the argument that fouling with Zombies (or Skeletons, in case of the Undead) is safer and more efficient course of action for your team.

In case of Humans turning your Catcher into a fouler carries the same cost issue as the Ghouls'. You can give a Lineman Dirty Player and he will be only very slightly pricer than a naked Catcher (70k versus 75k).

Beyond that the problem lies elsewhere: your Catchers are your receivers. Players who are supposed to catch the pass and run away with it for the score. Any other player will likely have to eat one of team's re-rolls just to catch the pass, will be slower (by 1 or 2 movement) and will have a serious problem when marked (Catchers have inherent Dodge, so it's safer to try and break contact with them before attempting a pass).

Other considerations? Deducting Blitzers from blocking/blitzing duty will deprive your team of a Block skill, weakening your fighting potential. Your Linemen are not likely the players you want to score with (Blitzers and Catchers are preferable), at least not beyond the first skill.

All in all - I really don't think Sneaky Git is as hot as people think it is (at least not for the teams discussed above), considering all the downsides of it. But who knows, maybe the practice will prove me wrong...
spinball



Joined: Jul 01, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 05, 2021 - 00:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I think having 2 players with side step, stand firm and frenzy is intriguing for crowd surfing purposes.

They won't handle the ball as well, but they should be interesting at least.

And for the record, because I don't have my rule book with me (friend at work has it) does claw no longer stack with mighty blow?
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 05, 2021 - 01:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Yup, Claw doesn't stack any more. So with Claw + MB, you'll break armour on an AV7 player on a 7 or better; with anyone with AV8 or higher, you'll need an 8 to break armour, and then you'll always have the MB modifier on the casualty roll.

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