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Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 20:49 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:

Let's not be stupid about it - the rebuy was/is tested in/for small private leagues where a cap would have been unnecessary both due to the size of divisions and the fact many people would reroll their team anyway.
I know from at least one person involved in said testing that the 1350tv limit and 15 games proscribed by FUMBBL is "probably too generous" for season 2+ growth within the system.


Fine and good, I have nothing against the cap itself, when it is a cap on TV. All I want is for agency fees to be paid prior to the redraft, so that the agency fees don't get carved out of the redraft budget. That's all. You can lower the TV cap to 1100k for all I care, just give me the possibility of carrying players through a complete lifecycle.

I don't expect Christer to actually accommodate my desire, but I do expect all of you to pat me on the back and say that I am correct in asking for it Smile
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 20:52 Reply with quote Back to top

You're not "right" though, because "carrying players through a complete lifecycle" is something the new rules really, really don't want you doing. The agency fees are what do that.

It might very well increase your individual enjoyment to be able to do so, but that's another matter entirely.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 20:56 Reply with quote Back to top

What I'd really like would be the opportunity to get my teams out of the competitive division and into the League division.

That may just be a slow death, but I'd prefer that to the quick death.

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[SL] Rookie Rumble - New teams ONLY - ALWAYS recruiting
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 21:01 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
You're not "right" though, because "carrying players through a complete lifecycle" is something the new rules really, really don't want you doing. The agency fees are what do that.

It might very well increase your individual enjoyment to be able to do so, but that's another matter entirely.


You are a broken record m8. The rules don't require a cap. The rules have nothing against a complete lifecycle. FUMBBL adopted the cap. FUMBBL is against a complete lifecycle. Stop passing the buck to "rules" and "many many anonymous sources".

I also want to point out that 1) I like the agency fees and 2) I like the cap, I just don't like them mixed together.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 21:26 Reply with quote Back to top

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=904427
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=966777

Yeah I can see why someone playing those two teams might have issues with an agency fee while liking a cap.

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Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 21:27 Reply with quote Back to top

People should stop catastophizing and learn to live with it. This is what it is for an amount of time then GW will change it again and it will be another way. If you don't want "your team to die" the. Don't redraft it. Start a new team of the same race play it out then decide if blood bowl in its current form is right for you. If you decide it isn't then wait ten minutes it will change again.
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 21:34 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=904427
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=966777

Yeah I can see why someone playing those two teams might have issues with an agency fee while liking a cap.


Yeah I built one minmax team for the hell of it. I had never run one before, it was evil fun I see why people do it Smile The agency fee wouldn't do shit to that team, I can get a whole team of MB fairly easily.

The Harpooners weren't intended as minmax, but then my thrower got on track for toplists and I optimized it for that. I had a goal of being top human thrower. I don't think anyone would accuse me of running that team as win-optimized, and if I did it would prove how terrible I am at it.

Not exactly a "gotcha" moment, more dickish than anything.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Nothing gotcha intended about it. I've got a 1rr+L pact team in my own history. But if that's your only two longish-lived teams on FUMBBL i can see why you'd be opposed to agency fees.

I've done nothing more than actually try to answer why the agency fee won't be adjusted in the manner you'd like in this thread and I'm pretty much done answering. I certainly won't be telling you which of the "many many anonymous sources" broke their NDA(s) in discussing things with me over the last few years of development and testing cycle, nor will I sail any closer to putting words in Christer's mouth, despite having a fairly good idea of why the system is going to be as it is going to be.

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Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
Nothing gotcha intended about it. I've got a 1rr+L pact team in my own history. But if that's your only two longish-lived teams on FUMBBL i can see why you'd be opposed to agency fees.


I'm bad with passwords and switching emails, I have older profiles where I played more. Plus BB2 and TT. At any rate, thanks for the convo I guess, enjoy the product, I won't, many won't, you won't, but you will say you do Smile
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 22, 2021 - 22:14 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=904427
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=966777

Yeah I can see why someone playing those two teams might have issues with an agency fee while liking a cap.


They would have had to keep above 1600 to be a Slobberknocker. Smile

But there'll be no more of that.

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[SL] Rookie Rumble - New teams ONLY - ALWAYS recruiting
Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2021 - 10:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I think redraft and agency fees will be good for the site.

It stops 2 things I think are an issue for new players joining in:

- Long term min-max abuse to the point of rookie team hunting.
We all have seen it, it hurts the playerbase when you have to deal with a team like that with a team you just started. If that happens shortly after you join.
- Massive mega teams being mono-activated.
Massive mega-teams have an appeal to them.... as you get to grow something and enjoy their massive weirdness. But they arent good for new players joining in, I think it can feel like "this play-yard is full of big monsters, cant compete"

second point is less of a problem, unless they are mono-activating and people just outside the safety bracket have to play them, then is just as bad as the mega-min-max hunt.


I also think massive teams vs massive teams arent great for blood bowl from a tactical game perspective, as once you have everything, there is a lot less "play" involved and just more and more luck the bigger they grow.


and for those that like the roleplaying part of the game, that like growing someone to ridiculous levels... well, those players die too my friend, stop pixel hugging and let them go eventually. Im sure we will get rewards like the potion but for players that left our teams due to redraft.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2021 - 14:00 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
What I'd really like would be the opportunity to get my teams out of the competitive division and into the League division.

That may just be a slow death, but I'd prefer that to the quick death.


Yep. Me too.
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 24, 2021 - 05:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Box with rebuys, is essentially what I want for random pickup games.

Like, I have stacks of teams with 15+ games, so if I feel like playing one or two of them, they get to play 2500 TV Chaos or 2200 TV Chorfs. Which, the coaches and games are fine, the first half dozen times, but they play a lot so even when I do kill a legend or superstar, by the time I play them again they're just a new superstar with the same killstack skills on them, plus Guard everywhere.

Yeah, sometimes those teams have bad runs and live at 1700 for a while, and they play a lot and then they're back at 2500. And box just dies, it's not really a fun experience.

At least in the CPOMB era they lay down and I could foul them, and if I did hit a mismatch I could lightning bolt their ball carrier, and if that all didn't work I only had like four players to move and game was over quickly.

It's just, if I try really hard to win with 2200 Humans vs that, my next game is 1800 Humans vs the same thing. And if you keep fighting hard, well, you get 1400 Humans vs the same thing.

And if I activate my big bloaty dodge nurgs to protect the other teams, then I'm just adding to the problem, because someone else gets to play a big team that's almost impossible to really hurt but it's just that same box game vs a massive bloated AV 9 team with some killers in it.

--

We really, really would've been better off with rebuy as default in BB16. Like, I didn't understand that at the time, but it's very obvious in retrospect. BB16 is not anything like killy enough to not have rebuys. BB20 is even worse.

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C3I2



Joined: Feb 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 24, 2021 - 09:26 Reply with quote Back to top

If you don't want to play chaos teams with your dwarfs and orcs (and I sure don't want to) the traditional solution is to play ranked not box. The current rule-changes should benefit your dwarfs and orcs (with MB) vs chaos --- specifically as claw and MB does not stack --- if you insist on playing box.

If you instead happen to play an elf, no more worry about every Tom, Dick and Harry picking up the ball and passing it to another elf for a run and a score. So Orc or Necro away.
C3I2



Joined: Feb 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 24, 2021 - 11:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Anyway, from a discussion in Discord I understand that the 15 game cycle with cap is being introduced due to teams being too rich. The assumption is that the SUMpopularity/2+TDs would give most teams 70k each game (not sure that is correct as teams that lose will have lower popularity), and teams with cheap players and players with high armour values (less CAS) wont have that much to spend all the gold on.

Hence the gold will pile up and be used for inducements --- tilting games --- especially then tournament games I assume. Another way to see that is players having fun buying starplayers, but I don't doubt that some teams just wont need to buy players that often (necro, orcs etc) and that if they have to buy players those will be fairly cheap.
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