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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 19, 2021 - 23:41 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
It's a site about playing Blood Bowl, not testing characters.
Anyway, you use an excuse to avoid playing, not a surprise.


Dude, I just stated I don't want to play you because you are unpleasant, and I just conceded that you're probably a better coach than me. What else do you want exactly?

Also, Fumbbl is a community. And you post in a forum which is primarily a community and only secondarily a community about Blood Bowl. If you like to wear your prick persona, then - to the surprise of absolutely nobody - the large majority of the other coaches will make fun of you and despise you no matter how actually good your points are in a discussion. You can't have a fruitful exchange without respect. If you can't understand that, you're beyond hopeless.

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Xandyreoch



Joined: Jun 21, 2020

Post   Posted: Sep 19, 2021 - 23:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Lol, honestly i'd love to see you enter a tournament Dakka, not because i don't think you'd be able to do it, but tournament BB is a whole different kind of BB to box/competitive/ranked.
You have to go forwards and reliably win the games, under restrictions meant to disadvantage "good" teams and adantage mediocre ones.
We all know you can play bb, but could you win a tournament
RedDevilCG



Joined: Jan 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 19, 2021 - 23:50 Reply with quote Back to top

What a thoroughly enjoyable thread until until now. Is this the real MattDakka, or just a bad day for him?
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Both. The Gamefinder is a not efficient way to find games. I miss the Box.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:01 Reply with quote Back to top

RedDevilCG wrote:
What a thoroughly enjoyable thread until until now. Is this the real MattDakka, or just a bad day for him?


it doesn't get any better than this

you might not like it but this is what peak BB performance looks like Cool

looking forward to more "pearls of wisdom"
Xandyreoch



Joined: Jun 21, 2020

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Well dakka, if you see me around, I'll always accept an offer from you Wink
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:04 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
And you could show your quality by playing in Competitive division sometimes.


Damn G! I ain't the one bragging about being a Legend.

Even so... It appears that I have more official tournament wins than you. Twisted Evil

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[SL]2020 Rookie Rumble - New teams ONLY - Always recruiting!
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:05 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
no matter how actually good your points are in a discussion.


How good was his point btw? I consider your Hellfishes one of the ideals for human teams to aspire to, playing high TV without cherrypicking. I see a dauntless catcher on the current roster. Is a dauntless/frenzy catcher a "turnover machine" without merit? If you randomly rolled that up would you sack him immediately?
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Mingoose wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
no matter how actually good your points are in a discussion.


How good was his point btw? I consider your Hellfishes one of the ideals for human teams to aspire to, playing high TV without cherrypicking. I see a dauntless catcher on the current roster. Is a dauntless/frenzy catcher a "turnover machine" without merit? If you randomly rolled that up would you sack him immediately?


Hall of Famers. Now, that is Legendary.

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[SL]2020 Rookie Rumble - New teams ONLY - Always recruiting!
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Mingoose wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
no matter how actually good your points are in a discussion.


How good was his point btw? I consider your Hellfishes one of the ideals for human teams to aspire to, playing high TV without cherrypicking. I see a dauntless catcher on the current roster. Is a dauntless/frenzy catcher a "turnover machine" without merit? If you randomly rolled that up would you sack him immediately?


To be honest in that particular instance I agree with Matt. A frenzy dauntless st2 blockless player is a disaster waiting to happen imho. It might work, and in some instances it might work spectacularly. But I know I would shiver everytime I click "block" with him.

If you see my blockless dauntless catcher, I'm pretty sure he got his skill in 2011 when Dauntless was a double. Smile then I played again a few times in 2020, and was ready to give him block... but he rolled +ag Smile

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Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:

To be honest in that particular instance I agree with Matt. A frenzy dauntless st2 blockless player is a disaster waiting to happen imho.


So rolling into frenzy is an auto-fire? I mean that was my original gut reaction, but I let my rosy disposition convince me with dauntless me may have some sort of a role.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:43 Reply with quote Back to top

On my Box Skaven team I used to take either Wrestle or Block on Gutter Runners:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=pastplayers&team_id=725147
then, if no double was rolled, I took Dauntless and proved to be useful often.
So, I'm not against Dauntless, it's a good skill considering its TV cost (almost as good as +ST but only 20 TV), but not before Block/Wrestle.
My concern is that, without Block/Wrestle first, using Dauntless is too risky in case of failure (-2d without Block/Wrestle). Frenzy increases the chance of rolling Both Down, and without Block/Wrestle is a recipe for disaster.
Both Frenzy and Dauntless make blocking riskier, so first Block/Wrestle, then you can add Dauntless.
I tried to be constructive and explain the reasoning behind, but it didn't work.
If you want I will tell you that your Catcher with Frenzy and Dauntless is good but I would be lying.


Last edited by MattDakka on Sep 20, 2021 - 00:46; edited 1 time in total
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Mingoose wrote:
JanMattys wrote:

To be honest in that particular instance I agree with Matt. A frenzy dauntless st2 blockless player is a disaster waiting to happen imho.


So rolling into frenzy is an auto-fire? I mean that was my original gut reaction, but I let my rosy disposition convince me with dauntless me may have some sort of a role.


Now,I wouldn't say autofire. You can definitely play (and are actually expected to, if you roll randoms) with sub-par combinations of skills. Also, fire or non-fire depends on how good or bad the shape of the team is. There's no "autofire".

But I'd definitely be worried about turnovers anytime I block with him. He can fail dauntless, he can fail the block, and with frenzy he actually has a chance of... risking to fail dauntless again or the block again. Usable? Yes. Interesting? Yes. Cheap? Yes. Reliable? Hell no Very Happy

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 00:48 Reply with quote Back to top

It's true that with multiple rrs per turn you can afford a 1/9 failure chance, but still I would not suggest to risk like that.
The fact you can use multiple rrs is not a good reason to waste them.
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2021 - 01:06 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
On my Box Skaven team I used to take either Wrestle or Block on Gutter Runners, then, if no double was rolled, I took Dauntless and proved to be useful often.
So, I'm not against Dauntless, it's a good skill considering its TV cost (almost as good as +ST but only 20 TV), but not before Block/Wrestle.
My concern is that, without Block/Wrestle first, using Dauntless is too risky in case of failure (-2d without Block/Wrestle). Frenzy increases the chance of rolling Both Down, and without Block/Wrestle is a recipe for disaster.
Both Frenzy and Dauntless make blocking riskier, so first Block/Wrestle, then you can add Dauntless.
I tried to be constructive and explain the reasoning behind, but it didn't work.
If you want I will tell you that your Catcher with Frenzy and Dauntless is good but I would be lying.


The question isn't whether you should take block for folks that are going to block. Obviously you should. The question is, if stuck with Frenzy on a St2 piece, do you go for dauntless or block next? See that is the problem, you aren't addressing the situation, and you arrogance prevents you from addressing anything other than your own inner monologue. A Frenzy/Block st2 piece is still terrible. The Frenzy is the problem, not the dauntless.

The other problem is that statistically speaking, I believe you are wrong. With 1 assist, it is better to have dauntless than block in that scenario. The risk of TO is lower, and the possibility of knocking them down is higher. And that is assuming the target does not have block, if the target has block the stats swing way in dauntless's favor. Unassisted it is a mixed bag, with the TO percentage higher on dauntless but the knockdown percentage also higher, again assuming the target has block. For a sweeper, I would always favor knockdown percentage, and I would also assume getting an assist.

So how about you be constructive and tell me how your legendary status can turn the odds on their heads?
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