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Nobby_Nobbs



Joined: Jan 20, 2021

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 17:46 Reply with quote Back to top

What about the mutation extra arms added to a player with no hands? Are the hands added onto the arms, or not?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 18:14 Reply with quote Back to top

already included.

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Tesifonte



Joined: Sep 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 21:59 Reply with quote Back to top

This is fun.

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TaChIkOmA! \o/
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 23:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Kransky wrote:
There’s one more: Throw Team Mate requires ST5 to use - so an Ogre that has suffered a -STR injury therefore has strong arm forbidden.


good catch! that interaction was found during testing and now the client does not allow ST busted ogres to TTM, but having Strong Arm barred wasn't spotted. Thanks.


@Lyracian I'd argue that if a skill has no tangible effect at present, you're not actually using it
commisaro



Joined: Nov 15, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 23:59 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the attribute-based ones (like IHS) shouldn't be forbidden because you could in theory get that random skill and then later modify that attribute (either positively or negatively) and have the skill become useful.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 00:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I refer you to tussock's post in the previous page, you're arguing for allowing skills that could potentially be used in the future if and when you take some other upgrade, which is not what the faq said
Kransky



Joined: Sep 12, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 01:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Let’s say you are teaching a brand new coach how to play. They have played their first game and are rolling for skills. At no point to you want to be saying to them “Oh you rolled Extra Arms on your no hands guy, or Iron Hard Skin on your snotling - that skill does nothing for you!”

If you take the viewpoint that no skill selection should have that kind of ‘feel badsies’ - every skill should give you something, no matter how small - then it is clear what skills should be re-rolled.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 02:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Kransky wrote:
Let’s say you are teaching a brand new coach how to play. They have played their first game and are rolling for skills. At no point to you want to be saying to them “Oh you rolled Extra Arms on your no hands guy, or Iron Hard Skin on your snotling - that skill does nothing for you!”

If you take the viewpoint that no skill selection should have that kind of ‘feel badsies’ - every skill should give you something, no matter how small - then it is clear what skills should be re-rolled.
"Common Sense" is no guide for an automated randomizer: the exceptions have to be specified.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 03:03 Reply with quote Back to top

One combo group we missed.

--

Monstrous Mouth should forbid Catch.

Catch + Sure Hands should forbid Monstrous Mouth.

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Kransky



Joined: Sep 12, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 05:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Good catch Tussock. Didn’t even begin to think about that one.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 10:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
4) pa- forbids all passing skills apart from Leader, On the ball, fumblerooskie, nerves of steel


Edit: There's no players with both PA- and P-access


Last edited by Sp00keh on Nov 22, 2021 - 20:30; edited 1 time in total
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2021 - 13:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:

@Lyracian I'd argue that if a skill has no tangible effect at present, you're not actually using it

I would love if the rules worked that way as it is one less mutation my Skaven can get. However I do not believe RAW supports that view.

I have emailed GW Faq. Lets see if we get an answer.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 29, 2021 - 11:56 Reply with quote Back to top

that's good, it could clear up some of the doubts (or create new ones Very Happy )
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 30, 2021 - 07:11
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:

...... the FAQ says, what do I do if I can't actually use the skill.

That's what the word "actually" means. It's different to "potentially".


This is why we cant have nice things. its your fault.

People try to write a nice fun chatty set of rules that sounds like a human wrote them, and you, YOU, tear into the exact meaning of the specific word to try to find an edge, or an interpretation, or to cite some legal use from 1830.

And we end of with rules written by humourless robots.

There are tiers in hell, levels.
And the deepest and darkest is reserved not for the faithless, nor the wicked, but for the rules lawyers.

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I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 30, 2021 - 07:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks, PC. Indeed.

It's an art form doing rules that read nicely and also stand up to being programmed into an unthinking machine in a way that people can all agree with.

I think the BB20 rules do pretty well at it, and the FAQ does tend to improve the reading of them in a consistent way, give or take for some things being inherently counter-intuitive.


They probably just needed one or two more reserved words to get it clearer yet, in dealing with which skills can be used in various states. It is good, though.

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