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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 01:18 Reply with quote Back to top

iena wrote:
I think something may be more clear adding that:

"Once a game is started or scheduled, you are committed to it and you are expected to play it through." (about Matches)

but since :

"Concessions are to be made only when there is merit for them." (about Concessions)

One should guess that if can't concede, can at least stay down and click-turn.

I am asking now about any known rule about it, but also at an "Etiquette" level.


I'd say that at an etiquette level you owe your opponent, more than anything else, a nice game. I'm not sure that laying down and clicking turns qualifies as giving your opponent a nice game.
If the dice treated you badly, or you got outplayed, or both, just suck it up and play till the final whistle.

As for t16 fouls, on Fumbbl I'm against them as a general principle. In tabletop you play with friends and the banter is the most important part of the shared fun. In an open league like fumbbl you never know who your opponent is, and how you are impacting on his/her fun. So trying to cripple some pixels when you've got nothing to gain is, in my opinion, a bad move.

You're playing against someone you know? Foul away and laugh about it. Against a random opponent in open play, who could just live without a recovery match? Nah.

That said, not all t16 foulers are assholes (some are) and not all t16 "GG"ers are pussies (some are). As many have already said, it's all situational.

A fouling thread... I feel it's 2007 all over again <3

Bellenrode wrote:
...which leads to the whole point of there not being any "etiquette" regarding fouling in the first place. Just individual opinions.

Just out of curiosity: you have 0 teams on fumbbl and 0 matches played. Why and how exactly are you arguing about Fumbbl non-written rules and site in-game etiquette?

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not an admin but, as far as I know, clicking on "end turn" should be acceptable if your team is clearly unable to keep on playing (generally due to lack of players), although you could concede (rule of thumb is 2 CAS suffered and used Apo).
If you have enough players to try something you should not click "end turn" nor stop playing and let the opponent score easy TDs. It's not collusion between coaches, but it's something akin to farming SPPs, which is forbidden by this site rule:

"Arranged games (ie. playing to lose) will not be tolerated. The same applies for coaches allowing each other to score extra touchdowns and all other SPP generating events."

Anyway, since it's a grey zone of the rules, it's better to ask an admin/send a ticket and get a specific ruling about the match. Don't guess, ask an admin and be safe!
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 13:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Do people really bother admins with this kind of stuff? Goodness. Play the spirit of the rules. Was it a competitive game? If yes, you are doing fine. If by your own judgment you've lost and there is nothing you can do about it, you preserve your players. And if your opponent is kind enough not to hunt them down to the last man, that is their choice. Just like I can choose not to foul against a new coach. Or I can choose not to time out. It's my choice, nowhere in the rules does it say "you always have to try to destroy the other team at all cost". I won the match so that should be competitive enough. You guys are making it much more complicated than it actually is.
mayhemzz22



Joined: Oct 31, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 17:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Verminardo wrote:
Do people really bother admins with this kind of stuff? Goodness. Play the spirit of the rules. Was it a competitive game? If yes, you are doing fine. If by your own judgment you've lost and there is nothing you can do about it, you preserve your players. And if your opponent is kind enough not to hunt them down to the last man, that is their choice. Just like I can choose not to foul against a new coach. Or I can choose not to time out. It's my choice, nowhere in the rules does it say "you always have to try to destroy the other team at all cost". I won the match so that should be competitive enough. You guys are making it much more complicated than it actually is.


Yea this is it for me really, when I sit down to play, its a contract that we both try and both want to have fun. If my team is wrecked and I have no chance, then staying on the floor and living to fight another day is a valid tactic.

Same for the other way, if I'm completely smashing someone's team and they run away to the other side of the pitch. I will finish my drive off with a score, but I wouldn't go out of my way to ruin someone's team.

I don't have a problem fouling or being fouled, in the past it was different but honestly, its just part of the game. I tend to refer to them now as a Ground Blitz(stole this from a streamer, not sure which one) and I find it less annoying.

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awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 17:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like a rubber duck sound on a successful "Ground Blitz" action. Twisted Evil

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mayhemzz22



Joined: Oct 31, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 20:22 Reply with quote Back to top

that would be amazing

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
You don't really make any points that refute what I have said or that have made anything concrete any more than I have according to your own standards. But then how could you.

I said "The consensus I know of is that you are free to foul on turn 16" and the responses in this thread (as well as my personal Blood Bowl experience) seem to be in sync with that impression and contrary to your claims.

Catalyst32 wrote:
Your Crusade against civility has been received. We all get it. You prefer to not be cool by falling in with the cool kids that like to own the Forums and break everyone else's toys for no reason.

1) It's not "crusade against civility" as much as it's the belief that the record has to be kept straight.

2) Is that supposed to be the royal "we"? If not, who are the "we" in this context? I must admit I have failed to notice people sharing your position on the subject (the ban on fouling on turn 16 under the threat of ostracism).

3) Why would I want to "not be cool by falling in with the cool kids that like to own the Forums and break everyone else's toys for no reason"? What others and their actions/opinions have to do with my own individual opinion on fouling itself?

I assure you, if I "fall in with the cool kids that like to own the Forums and break everyone else's toys for no reason" that's because I see merit in fouling on turn 16 and my "falling in with the cool kids" is merely a coincidence.

Catalyst32 wrote:
But that is not the ettiquete of the game and you know it.

I know you should stop saying what I know when you do not know me or what I know. Also, repeating something X times won't make it true when it's not true the first time around.

JanMattys wrote:
Just out of curiosity: you have 0 teams on fumbbl and 0 matches played. Why and how exactly are you arguing about Fumbbl non-written rules and site in-game etiquette?

I am arguing about Blood Bowl rules and the alleged etiquette surrounding playing Blood Bowl in general (which I believe to be largely analogous to FUMBBL's). Or is playing on FUMBBL so fundamentally different that I am wrong in my position?
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 22:01 Reply with quote Back to top

This thread needs to be locked Sad

Pity, because it was a reasonably interesting topic on page 1.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 22:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Bellenrode wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
Just out of curiosity: you have 0 teams on fumbbl and 0 matches played. Why and how exactly are you arguing about Fumbbl non-written rules and site in-game etiquette?

I am arguing about Blood Bowl rules and the alleged etiquette surrounding playing Blood Bowl in general (which I believe to be largely analogous to FUMBBL's). Or is playing on FUMBBL so fundamentally different that I am wrong in my position?


It is different, yes.
Regular blood bowl is either played in NAF events (which largely means no-progression, which makes the problem about t16 fouls moot), or against friends / aquaintances in a League.
Against friends, banter, rivalries and whatnot are a common occurrence and part of the fun. I would totally foul my best friend's star werewolf in turn 16 of the last game of the season just for the fun of it. Because I know we both enjoy the rivalry and killing his players just helps ignite that fire.
The same goes for Fumbbl Leagues, of course, even if, in general, I'd say that fouling that player in t16 just helps the other players in the league, not you.

But on the majority of Fumbbl games (which means R-B divisions, and now C) you are playing against people you dont know. People you are unlikely to meet on the pitch again in the next few dozen games. And people who probably aren't particularly fond of recovery games.
In this environment, I find it a stretch to believe that they love when you cripple their players "for the lulz". They might. But it's safe to assume that they also might not.

So, if in this situation you automatically assume you can behave in the same way you do with your pal at your local club, yes I believe you are wrong.

Fumbbl is pretty different from your local league or your games against friends. It MIGHT be the same, but for the most part it is not. In my opinion this must be taken into account.

I dont judge you like Catalyst. But I prefer to be a gracious winner than a merciless one, at least when I face strangers and there's nothing for me to gain.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 23:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Bellenrode wrote:

I am arguing about Blood Bowl rules and the alleged etiquette surrounding playing Blood Bowl in general (which I believe to be largely analogous to FUMBBL's). Or is playing on FUMBBL so fundamentally different that I am wrong in my position?


In some ways it can be quite different.

E.g. you may be playing a game against a coach who has not said a single word to you. Ever.

You may be playing a team that is having one last prep game before a tournament.

You may be playing a coach who dreams of having a famous, super massive team but only has a limited amount of time to build one.

People play for a lot of different reasons. People come from a lot of different backgrounds.
A T16 maybe taboo for some. Almost mandatory for others.

In an anonymous division where some people don't even say "Hi", who can say whether an opponent might laugh or have a meltdowm. Twisted Evil

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 23:47 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
But I prefer to be a gracious winner than a merciless one,


How about a gracious loser?

A while ago in a league I was losing badly. The dice, the dice! Always the dice innit.

Now, I don't think it matters if I lost because I played worse or because I was diced although, well, we know the answer don't we!! Smile

But on turn 16, before my opponent scored the winning TD in their turn 16, I decided, since there was literally nothing I could do to stop that TD, to do a foul.

That foul killed quite a good player, certainly damaging the prospects of my opponent in the subsequent matches of that league.

My opponent was not happy, saying that by doing that I had created an advantage for all their next opponents, and therefore hampering my own efforts too as my team was in direct competition in the table against some of them.

I get it, celebratory/rub-it-in/pitch clearing foul bad

What about a "make them pay the blood price of victory" foul?
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, this is still going...

I like to do a fake foul T16 every time - surround player, select foul and do a run up to gain speed aaaand....end players turn. This way you sometimes get to see how they would of reacted, and it's funny Very Happy

Sadly I choose to kick way too often so I rarely get to try it
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 04:28 Reply with quote Back to top

As much as I hate to interrupt a Turn 16 fouling debate, I thought this might be useful to share from Discord:

Elyod wrote:
out of interest what is etiquette regarding the recent errata (I guess this applies to C too, but in particular the minor). Should I play (and expect my opponents to play) in line with the errata, or the rules as they currently are on FUMBBL?

for example if I was playing Underworld should I only field the same number of swarming snotlings as are already on the pitch
or field D3 regardless of how many are already on the pitch


Christer wrote:
Play as-is. FFB will be updated in due time.

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 05:48 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
It is different, yes.

[...]

But on the majority of Fumbbl games (which means R-B divisions, and now C) you are playing against people you dont know. People you are unlikely to meet on the pitch again in the next few dozen games. And people who probably aren't particularly fond of recovery games.

You just described Blood Bowl 2.

JanMattys wrote:
In this environment, I find it a stretch to believe that they love when you cripple their players "for the lulz". They might. But it's safe to assume that they also might not.

You are free to foul on turn 16. That said, I never claimed it is mandatory to foul every time on turn 16 - it's up to everyone to decide that for themselves.

People like to say it's in the spirit of the game and I agree with that notion. However, for me it depends largely on the context of the match in question. If I am playing in a league where teams can be matched multiple times and there is a strong player in the fouling range, then I am going to strongly consider removing that player from the game.

Keep in mind that you can place players far away from the LoS or set up your team in a way that fouling has a limited effect (but increases the number of blocks given to 4).

koadah wrote:
You may be playing a coach who dreams of having a famous, super massive team but only has a limited amount of time to build one.

You could set up a format for persistent teams. Or make a "No T16 Foul League".

Besides, you are much more likely to get your team destroyed by regular blocking (or regular fouling!) than you are to achieve anywhere near the same result via fouling on turn 16 alone.

koadah wrote:
In an anonymous division where some people don't even say "Hi", who can say whether an opponent might laugh or have a meltdowm.

So? In this very thread the OP met someone who said it was "inproper" to score as many touchdowns as possible, which - to me - is absurd thinking.
maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 13:44 Reply with quote Back to top

why is someone who has no interest in this site (0 games), allowed to derail so many threads with pointless bellen(rod)dery?
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