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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 14:47 Reply with quote Back to top

we've been through this kind of critique before

people can use the site as a discussion forum for all sorts of reasons (one often given is that it's preferred to other forums or facebook groups or reddit or whatever)

playing matches on the site isn't a requirement to participate in discussions

granted, sometimes with the non-playing participants you feel that the more they post the less they know, but it's not a hard and fast rule, and it's no reason to be rude to them

in the end, engaging is not mandatory
maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 15:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Then you're just encouraging trolls. It's literally a debate about the etiquette for playing on fumbbl, being dominated from someone who has no interest in doing that.
Zlefin



Joined: Apr 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 15:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd say it's technically allowable, but their opinions should be regarded as worthless and irrelevant, because they are, since they obviously don't have a good understanding of the etiquette standards on fumbbl by dint of not playing on it. Social standards often vary considerably between subgroups after all, so their experience elsewhere says little about the standards here.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 21:28 Reply with quote Back to top

maznaz wrote:
why is someone who has no interest in this site (0 games), allowed to derail so many threads with pointless bellen(rod)dery?

"So many"? You mean two? And I how am I "derailing" them when all do I is literally discuss the topic at hand AND respond to people who quote me (usually one person with whom I am engaged in a conversation)? While all YOU do is get entirely off-topic and personal to boot? Who's really a troll derailing a thread here?

Also, just because I am not interested in playing through FUMBBL doesn't mean I am not interested in Blood Bowl. I thought about a few sites to join for this purpose and I picked FUMBBL. I wasn't aware that you have to play on FUMBBL just to be able to talk about Blood Bowl.

Zlefin wrote:
Social standards often vary considerably between subgroups after all, so their experience elsewhere says little about the standards here.

Is that true though? Judging by the responses in this thread - coming from FUMBBL players - I'd say my opinion isn't unwarranted, even if I don't have games on FUMBBL. Which doesn't surprise me at all, because FUMBBL isn't THAT different from the core Blood Bowl.

By the way, it's sad to see this kind of behaviour here. Then again, I guess some people are just like that and will use literally anything when they can't target the quality of the argument itself, be it the number of posts, the join date or the number of games.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Not just Fumbbl games. Fumbbl "competitve" divisions games. Wink

Anyone without 10 years Fumbbl competitive experience, at least 1000 games and a 170+ CR must surely be an ignorant barbarian. Mr. Green

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Last edited by koadah on Nov 30, 2021 - 22:08; edited 1 time in total
Zlefin



Joined: Apr 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 22:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, it is true; happening to be right by chance is very different from being right because you have a proper knowledge base. Also you're being rude.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 22:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Zlefin wrote:
Yes, it is true; happening to be right by chance is very different from being right because you have a proper knowledge base.

Is this by chance or because this is the natural result of how one approaches the rules of Blood Bowl, which are the fundament of... playing Blood Bowl? Which is also the vital part of having "a proper knowledge base"?

Zlefin wrote:
Also you're being rude.

This is quite a feat, considering I didn't even start [being rude]. And considering the tone of YOUR post.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Bellenrode wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
It is different, yes.

[...]

But on the majority of Fumbbl games (which means R-B divisions, and now C) you are playing against people you dont know. People you are unlikely to meet on the pitch again in the next few dozen games. And people who probably aren't particularly fond of recovery games.

You just described Blood Bowl 2.


Oh I agree. And that's a different thing from "regular BloodBowl" as well.
Also, I'd be against t16 fouls in BB2 too, so my point stands.

The bottom line is: you gain nothing out of it (except a few cases, for example the one MattDakka mentioned). So you don't really have an "in game" reason to do it. You have social / fun reasons to do it, but since in an open environment you can't be sure that your social / fun expectations are the same as your opponent's... those reasons do not really hold up.

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maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 23:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I suggest if anyone wants to test this out, go into the sports club bar of your choice, of which you are not a member, and start telling the patrons how they should practise the etiquette of their matches. Film it for posterity.

I have no idea what it is about this site that keeps attracting people who just come here to argue. Every few years when I check back, there's a new one.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 23:43 Reply with quote Back to top

maznaz wrote:
I suggest if anyone wants to test this out, go into the sports club bar of your choice, of which you are not a member, and start telling the patrons how they should practise the etiquette of their matches. Film it for posterity.


It should be quite a scrap. I think quite a few would take Bellenrode's side. Wink

maznaz wrote:
I have no idea what it is about this site that keeps attracting people who just come here to argue. Every few years when I check back, there's a new one.


I think it's the blood bowl. Smile

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2021 - 05:21 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
Oh I agree. And that's a different thing from "regular BloodBowl" as well. Also, I'd be against t16 fouls in BB2 too, so my point stands.

In my opinion it's best to leave it to everyone to decide for himself what the correct course of action is. And - as some people pointed out - this seems to be what FUMBBL does in its site rules anyway. Fouling on turn 16 is so much in the spirit of Blood Bowl that I don't really mind "pointless fouling" when someone does it to me.

maznaz wrote:
I suggest if anyone wants to test this out, go into the sports club bar of your choice, of which you are not a member, and start telling the patrons how they should practise the etiquette of their matches. Film it for posterity.

You obviously didn't read this thread, otherwise you'd have known how silly your "suggestion" is. But I doubt it was done in a good faith anyway, considering you came to this thread just to make personal attacks.

maznaz wrote:
I have no idea what it is about this site that keeps attracting people who just come here to argue. Every few years when I check back, there's a new one.

You have a strange idea of the Internet then, because you will find arguments everywhere.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2021 - 06:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I disagree with your position, but I agree that it's best to leave it to everyone to decide for himself. That's a given, we are discussing etiquette, not rules.

To me, Fumbbl is basically a tabletop game turned open play with strangers. It is different, and I don't think that the tabletop etiquette necessarily applies to the online version, spirit of the game or not.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2021 - 10:36 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
I disagree with your position, but I agree that it's best to leave it to everyone to decide for himself. That's a given, we are discussing etiquette, not rules.


I think that the etiquette is that everyone should use their own judgement as to whether to T16 foul or not. This can vary from game to game and opponent to opponent.

Of course you may get it wrong from time to time. But if the old "spirit of the game" is gone, why bother?

JanMattys wrote:

To me, Fumbbl is basically a tabletop game turned open play with strangers. It is different, and I don't think that the tabletop etiquette necessarily applies to the online version, spirit of the game or not.


By "Fumbbl", I guess that you mean the "competitive" divisions and maybe huge leagues.

It seems to me that the new rules and the Competitive division implementation of seasons are designed to kill the old "spirit of the game".

No worries. Fumbbl still has the [L]eague division.

It also has discord, where we can arrange games with people that we have had a chat with.

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2021 - 17:40 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
I disagree with your position, but I agree that it's best to leave it to everyone to decide for himself. That's a given, we are discussing etiquette, not rules.

Etiquette is the set of rules or customs that control accepted behaviour in particular social groups or social situations. I will say more: it's a set of conventional (agreed or generally accepted) rules.

I think the majority of us would agree on leaving it to everyone to decide for themselves. On the other hand, taking any particular side is going to cause disagreement on the other side (and therefore it can't serve as a commonly agreed upon set of rules. Unless we do it in a democratic way and start voting or something like that).

JanMattys wrote:
To me, Fumbbl is basically a tabletop game turned open play with strangers. It is different, and I don't think that the tabletop etiquette necessarily applies to the online version, spirit of the game or not.

I wouldn't exactly call it "tabletop etiquette".

It's more like a certain kind of atmosphere surrounding the game that is being conveyed by the manual.

But you're correct in the sense that playing with someone face-to-face is a bit different than playing remotely.
mayhemzz22



Joined: Oct 31, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2021 - 17:51 Reply with quote Back to top

can we all just remember this started because one coach didn't want to have someone score too many TDs against him.....

lets all chill and if you cant agree, that's completely fine. But life is way too short for this to be a 7 page thread.

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