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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2021 - 17:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Fair enough. I wasn't thinking about NAF though. I was thinking about CRP Blackbox before the scheduler change, where you'd get a Chaos Pact team with one CPOMBer and a Blodge Dark Elf coming in at 1000k TV (0 RR and Leader) and then would get scheduled against rookie teams. Translated to the here proposed matchmaking, I could make a Norse team with 11 Linemen and 1 RR and then get Morg vs. normal rookie teams. Then stay low so I keep getting Morg through the next games, maybe skill a Leader and drop the RR, skill a DP/SG. The advantage will decay with more matches but I could just delete the team after 5 matches and start a new one. Most people will tire of this very soon but the old Box days have shown us that some don't. And even 2 or 3 very active ones would make it far less attractive. You could try to police this but I don't think any admin wants to go down that particular rabbit hole again, for good reasons. It's one thing being a league commissioner policing 20 or 30 coaches. But to police the Fumbbl community, with the forums as a constant commentary? We've been there, it wasn't healthy for the admins and the community still wasn't happy. So in the end Christer solved it by changing the matchmaking formula. Which is my point: the leverage is in the match making formula.
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2021 - 17:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Gotcha you're coming from a place of extensive experience of the history of the matchmaking algorithm for FUMBBL. Very helpful to hear.

I was really just talking theoretically about the impact of starts in BB2020 but really defer to you greater experience of what this community finds acceptable.

If I could throw out a theoretical though - I'd love to see the experiment where we played a bunch of games with Morg/norse lineman vs a traditionally built TV matched Norse team. I'd be curious how dissimilar the win rates would be. But that being said seeing Morg on the field may be enough to be a perceived Negative Play Experience that the actual data effect may not matter. Clearly per Christer's comments perceived unfairness in matchups is poorly received.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2021 - 17:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Norse are the best-case for low tv + stars (also stunties)
Because they all have block, you don't gain much for the extra TV... Norse winrate gets drastically worse as their TV grows (in a TV matching environment)

But yea, I'd be curious to see what impact Morg does have
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2021 - 19:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion26 wrote:
If I could throw out a theoretical though - I'd love to see the experiment where we played a bunch of games with Morg/norse lineman vs a traditionally built TV matched Norse team.


Heh, happy to try it (in League). Very Happy

Quote:
But that being said seeing Morg on the field may be enough to be a perceived Negative Play Experience that the actual data effect may not matter.


Yes, that, and also, for new coaches it can be double frustrating to run into a strong coach with such a build early on.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2021 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Is Morg suddenly worth his price?
Granted he was more than worth his 190 price in TT version 3 in the 1990s Very Happy
http://www.gamingcorner.nl/downloads/bloodbowl-starplayers.pdf

I thought stars issue was more with valuable combos on a few players. Not the official stars.

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Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2021 - 17:58 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
Is Morg suddenly worth his price?
Granted he was more than worth his 190 price in TT version 3 in the 1990s Very Happy
http://www.gamingcorner.nl/downloads/bloodbowl-starplayers.pdf

And that was to buy him, not hire him for the match.

Edit: However he didn't have MB(+2) and everyone did have DP(+2/+2), so he could be dealt with much more effectively.

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MisterA



Joined: Mar 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2021 - 15:21 Reply with quote Back to top

I’ve been giving this some thought, and I did love “blackbox”
I would like to see it back for 2020, very easy to run the 4 new build teams, 15 games each system!
After which teams would redraught,
That would seem to just make sense..
After redraught I would like to see teams run in a Blackbox Veterans system so the actual competition remains competitive, but people can still get games in with there new face teams.
r.e matching opponents, I think it would make sense to do it from games played since creation or redraught. I’m sure there’s a need to try and match tv to a degree but think the variance on matching up should be wider, especially with the stunts teams!
That just seems to make sense to me
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2021 - 18:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Perhaps this is where Gamefinder and the scheduler should deviate.

What if the scheduler used TV with rookie protection, while Gamefinder offered a sort-by-age* function, and/or a "suitability" function based on ∆TV and age.

* age = number of games in season, though rookie-season teams would be sorted separately.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2021 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

All a scheduler has to do is ...

Not hitting the same team too often.
Not hitting the same roster too often.
Not hitting too big, or too small of a team.
Not hitting ancient players when you have only rookies.

And then maybe not always hitting teams at the wrong end of their season.

While also balancing that with what the other coaches in the draw are having to face, in the sense of not only giving good match ups, but also not giving bad matchups. So, maybe it's better to have two middling matches than one good and one bad like it currently does.

But, eh, we'll have the old system when it starts, because that's how development works, and we'll see how it goes from there, after a box trophy season. Very Happy

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2021 - 07:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Any rumors on when the scheduler or seasons will kick off?
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