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BN-DoobllZkull



Joined: May 30, 2022

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 12:53 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Stand Firm would be fun on a Zombie. Grab too.


Fend. Fend is the superior choice here.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to get a G skill on a Zombie either Dauntless, Pro, Dirty Player, Kick, Tackle are way better than Fend.
Fend was a sub-par skill even when Piling On was a thing, let alone now.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 17:12 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd never pay full price for a General skill on a Zombie, unless I'd already chanced on a Strength skill and got something good.

I don't mind playing with a few suboptimal skills, so long as a) I got them randomly, and b) I can see a good application. So I'd keep a Stand Firm Zombie long enough to roll a General skill and hope for Block or Wrestle. That's 2 Cas or 1 MVP, with no downside (I don't care if I have to fire him) and the chance of getting a Block/SF/Regen speedbump for 70k, which is really quite nice. Sure, I'd never select Stand Firm on a Zombie, so comparing Stand Firm to other skills is pointless and foolish. Rather, you're looking at the potential of Stand Firm vs no skill at all at the cost of 40k Treasury: that's the comparison.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 17:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I take the first skill as random G on a Zombie, then, if he survives to get another skill, I will try to get a random S (or random G, if he didn't get enough SPPs).
It's better to randomly roll the first skill as G because there are at least 4 good skills (Block, Wrestle, Kick, Dirty Player, although Dauntless can be useful too), that means 1/3 chance of getting a good skill.
Instead, there are only 2 good S skills for the Zombie, Guard and MB, so the chance to randomly get these is only 1/6.
Anyway, the point is that on such a cheap player you have to take only random skills, to keep his cost low.
There could be a case if the Undead team is fresh and lacks some Block, then, for the first games having 1-2 Zombies with chosen Block would not be a tragedy, but later on, once the rest of team gets some skills and other Zombies randomly get Block/Wrestle it's better to drop the Zombies with chosen skills.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 18:39 Reply with quote Back to top

With Humans, I always take random 1st skills on Linemen, because if I don't get Block or Wrestle, that dictates their development track, and everything but Shadowing is worth having on at least one player, as far as primaries goes, and there are six keepable secondaries too. Then for the second skill, either I take Block or Wrestle, or just hold onto the SPP. 80k for a Block/skill Human Lineman is fine, if the skill in question is Dauntless, Tackle, Frenzy, Pro, Kick, or Sure Hands.

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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 21:13 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Instead, there are only 2 good S skills for the Zombie, Guard and MB, so the chance to randomly get these is only 1/6.

Well there is only 11 Str skills available so fractionally higher. Interestingly Skeletons are more likely to get Guard as there is one less Str skill they can randomly get already having Thick Skull! Very Happy

MattDakka wrote:
Anyway, the point is that on such a cheap player you have to take only random skills, to keep his cost low.
... other Zombies randomly get Block/Wrestle it's better to drop the Zombies with chosen skills.

I agree. Lots of random skills on cheap line players and just keep a few players with good rolls.

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Nuffle wills it.

Lyracian.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 21:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:

Well there is only 11 Str skills available so fractionally higher.

Ok, then that changes the % from 16.66 to 18.18, not a big difference. Anyway, the main point stands, there are more useful G skills than S skills.

Lyracian wrote:

Interestingly Skeletons are more likely to get Guard as there is one less Str skill they can randomly get already having Thick Skull! Very Happy

Yes, but Skeletons are more easily injured due to AV 7, so it's harder they survive to get the skills, also, they are more easily Stunned, therefore, on average, their S skill has less chance to have effect on turns.
Zombies are still better Linemen.
ben_awesome



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 03, 2022 - 04:34 Reply with quote Back to top

The biggest issue is that you are punished for scoring... fix that fix the game.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2022 - 07:59 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Yes, but Skeletons are more easily injured due to AV 7, so it's harder they survive to get the skills, also, they are more easily Stunned, therefore, on average, their S skill has less chance to have effect on turns. Zombies are still better Linemen.

I was not trying to turn this into yet another debate about Zombies vs Skeletons. I just found it amusing when looking at Random skills that Skeletons, and now Norse Linemen, have a marginally better chance of getting Guard.

A minor boost for Khemri.

_________________
Nuffle wills it.

Lyracian.
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