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Jokaero



Joined: Dec 24, 2004

Post   Posted: May 29, 2022 - 12:41 Reply with quote Back to top

hi,

I'm a bit confused about the rules on bribes (p.91 in the rulebook).
The first paragraph kind of indicates that I can use a bribe instead of 'Argue the Call'.
The second paragraph says that I can use a single bribe after 'Argue the Call'except if I roll a 1 on the argue.
AFAIK the client asks for the bribe first and if failed rolls for AtC.

So my questions:

1) If I roll a 1 on a bribe roll (without AtC first), can I use another bribe? EDIT: no you can't
2) If I fail the bribe roll, can I then still try to AtC?
3) Do I basically have the choice whether I AtC first or whether I use a bribe first with the risk that I can't use a bribe anymore if I rolled a 1 on AtC first?


Last edited by Jokaero on Aug 16, 2022 - 11:56; edited 2 times in total
kozak



Joined: Feb 25, 2017

Post   Posted: May 29, 2022 - 14:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting topic, I would like to have the answer also!!!
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: May 29, 2022 - 15:40 Reply with quote Back to top

As far as I can remember, Argue the Call doesn't stop a turnover happening (it just stops the player being sent off) so if you AtC first, you can't use a bribe afterwards, as your turn is already over.

If your coach is sent off, it doesn't prevent you using bribes on later turns.

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Jokaero



Joined: Dec 24, 2004

Post   Posted: May 30, 2022 - 07:58 Reply with quote Back to top

MrCushtie wrote:
As far as I can remember, Argue the Call doesn't stop a turnover happening (it just stops the player being sent off) so if you AtC first, you can't use a bribe afterwards, as your turn is already over.

If your coach is sent off, it doesn't prevent you using bribes on later turns.


That's how I understand it as well. It still doesn't answer my questions though.
Can I still choose the order of AtC and Bribes? Can I use several bribes if I start with bribes instead of AtC?
Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 30, 2022 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top

In both paragraphs it says that you can use a single bribe. So either with or without argue, only one bribe per sent-off

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Jokaero



Joined: Dec 24, 2004

Post   Posted: May 31, 2022 - 11:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Candlejack wrote:
In both paragraphs it says that you can use a single bribe. So either with or without argue, only one bribe per sent-off


True, I missed that.

How about the order?
According to the 2nd paragraph, I can AtC first and in case of 2-5 still use a bribe.
But can I also use a bribe first and in case of a 1 try to AtC?
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 31, 2022 - 16:04 Reply with quote Back to top

MrCushtie wrote:
... so if you AtC first, you can't use a bribe afterwards, as your turn is already over.


Can't speak to accuracy, but if true this would mean you'd have to bribe first or not at all.

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BardoHBD



Joined: May 11, 2022

Post   Posted: May 31, 2022 - 16:59 Reply with quote Back to top

The rules literally saw you can use a bribe after a failed, but not 1 argue. The way I read it is, if you’re going to argue, you have to do it first.
Jokaero



Joined: Dec 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2022 - 13:00 Reply with quote Back to top

BardoHBD wrote:
The rules literally saw you can use a bribe after a failed, but not 1 argue. The way I read it is, if you’re going to argue, you have to do it first.


Ok, but if this was true then it's wrongly implemented in the client as it asks for bribe first and if you fail it, it asks for AtC. Confused
dabassman



Joined: Feb 17, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2022 - 11:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like to readdress this topic.
According to the rules, after your player is being sent off (that includes fouls and secret weapons), you can argue the call. After that, if you fail (and don't roll a 1), you can use a single bribe.
This order improves your chances to keep a player on the pitch without spending a bribe. Especially now, that the biased ref is included in the client, because you add +1 to ATC, so you (the coach) can't be ejected.
Jokaero



Joined: Dec 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2022 - 11:54 Reply with quote Back to top

.. and don't forget about 'Bribery & Corruption' that lets you reroll the first 1 on AtC. Another reason you want to AtC before using a Bribe.
Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2022 - 15:46 Reply with quote Back to top

But AtC is still a TO and bribe is not.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2022 - 16:44 Reply with quote Back to top

As far as I can tell you can attempt to Argue either before or after* the bribe (but not both). Like many points in the rule book it is still open to interpretation.


*within the existing restrictions.

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2022 - 16:47 Reply with quote Back to top

is the open question: "do I still turnover if I fail the AtC roll but pass the bribe roll?"

or is it something else?

also, has it been submitted?
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2022 - 14:03 Reply with quote Back to top

In my opinion, in BB 2020 this is

1- Argue the Call
2- Bribe

You can't modify that order.

As said by BardoHBD and Dabassman, bribe inducement description explicitely (page 91) states :"A single bribe may be used AFTER an attempt to Argue the Call has been made".


Then, concerning TurnOver.

Yes, a succeeded Bribe roll avoids TurnOver whereas a succeeded Argue The Call roll avoids sending-off but not TurnOver.

That said, page 23 of BB 2020 rulebook, this is written that "should a TurnOver occur, any dice rolls that must be made as a result of the event that caused it are made immediatly, after which the current player activation ends."

In my opinion, if you Argue The Call first and obtain a "I don't care" result, it's not an immediat "stop all rolls" TurnOver, you still can use your Bribe before turn really ends. If that was not the case, the sentence "A single bribe may be used AFTER an attempt to Argue the Call has been made" page 91 of BB 2020 rulebook would be complete non sense.


Java wrote:
is the open question: "do I still turnover if I fail the AtC roll but pass the bribe roll?"


In my opinion, the answer is clearly "no". Bribe is successful so no TurnOver (this is only still a TurnOver when Argue the Call succeeds).

The question seemed to be "is there a mandatory order to bribe / argue the call" and order is 1- Argue the Call 2- Bribe while coaches said it was 1- Bribe and 2- Argue the Call in the client (maybe it's no more the case now, I have to admit I didn't check).

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Last edited by sebco on Sep 02, 2022 - 15:04; edited 2 times in total
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