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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 00:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Bommer is a problem, but GW's answer seems to be Cindy.

We're playing 40k now. Which is a shame because there's a ton to like in the new rules.

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Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 16:24 Reply with quote Back to top

My advice for you is to monoactivate orcs. Sometimes you need to change if the System refuses to change. Or you embrace Bomma as the most (ab)used weapon and accept that not everyone else needs to Deal with your desire for fun.

Example: I am tired of your defensive style, yet I know nobody will change you and accept.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, monoactivating Orcs is an option, but at the moment I'm on a quest with DE and WE. I'm already top 1 with Orcs, I'm trying to be top 1 with all the races I use.

About my defensive style: feel free to find a better way to play DE and I will copy it.
I tried to buy a bench (13-14 players), it didn't last for more than 1 game and the TV increase due to the bench made me face even more bash skills.
That means that I'm forced to play with 11 players (3-4 Loners, who can't be healed by Apothecary, by the way) and thus I can't afford to lose too many players in a futile block battle on defence.
Blitz! event has been nerfed and Leap has been nerfed too, so there is no way to either stop the cage creation or jump into it to sack the ball carrier.
AG 1+ is hard to get so dodging into cages is hard as well and even if you manage to dodge into a cage you face 2+ Guards, making the block a -2d, so, very unlikely to get the ball.
Blodging up the Linemen is even more hard than in the past due to the necessity of taking the first skill as random. If you wait for 6 SPPs your Lineman either dies/gets crippled and paying Block or Wrestle 20 TV is a lot in an environment with bash and hybrid teams being able to take randomly Block/Wrestle due to very cheap Linemen.
Give me 11 players guaranteed at start of 2nd Half and I will defend traditionally.
As long as I don't have 11 players at start of 2nd Half I'm not going to bother defending just to lose more players and failing to stop the score anyway.
In the lucky occurrence the TD is stopped, the odds of starting with 8 or fewer players the 2nd Half are very high. So, maybe you stop the TD but you get surely outnumbered and fail to score on 2nd Half and probably lose the game as well.


Last edited by MattDakka on Nov 28, 2022 - 20:24; edited 2 times in total
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top

TL:DR: now that you dont play bomber anymore you want him to be worse ?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 17:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Dark Elves are hard now. Expensive linemen, numerous expensive positionals, and this new edition rewards DF and RR. Jump is a fair bit better than nothing, but nowhere near an equalizer. Wood Elves got screwed too.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 17:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I would have removed Bomber or changed his price before playing with and against him. I used him just because he was used against me and I had to use him as well to be on even ground. If I loved Bomber I would not be losing CR by playing DE as much as I did.

Wood Elves have been nerfed but they are still better than DE (better passing game, higher speed, better 1TTD capability, Treeman tanking some damage on LOS and marking opponent players).
So, according to my own and particular experience, DE seem to be the weakest of the 4 Elven teams.
All the other 3 Elven teams can at least pass the ball quite reliably (PA 2+ Throwers and fast Catchers), DE have a PA 3+ Runner, ridiculous. Even farming passes are hard.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I like how you suggest Matt that the CR calc should be adjusted to make using Bomber less appealing... like as if we all care about CR?

When Season Re-Draft comes in this will be less of an issue as already stated.

I also hope for those who are with C Div teams of >30 games that any player redraft fee should be multiplied by their games played divided by 15. Therefore, all these super players will be instantly more expensive to re-draft.

I have played leagues on TT and fumbbl with drafting (SWL being the main), the overdog cash splurge is rare and is primarily only done to get Bomber. He's undercosted and more widely available to teams that never used to get him (i.e. Chorfs) but he's hardly a huge issue for leagues.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, not everybody cares about CR, but I suspect that more people than you can imagine care about CR. It would still be better than nothing.
I used these words: "a soft workaround to discourage hiring him", so, I never claimed it was the perfect and ultimate solution to Bomber, just a soft counter-measure. Feel free to suggest better ideas.

"When Season Re-Draft comes"
I know that sooner or later Season Re-Draft will come, but, since there is no extimated date, I suggested something till Re-Draft implementation.
Also, Bomber CR calculation was a side-topic.
The main topic was taking into account Treasury into TV for purpose of Box pairing.

Ok, I get that in leagues Bomber and overdogging are not an issue, I believe you, but my concern is for Box one-off games, not for leagues, thus I suggested something for the Box environment.
In a league the Commissioner can just change the price from 50k to 100-130k, so leagues are not an issue.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
I also hope for those who are with C Div teams of >30 games that any player redraft fee should be multiplied by their games played divided by 15. Therefore, all these super players will be instantly more expensive to re-draft.


This would be great. Especially if you can subtract the team's longest tournament streak from their games played, but that's probably too much to ask.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:18 Reply with quote Back to top

the tournament thing is really important. My orcs for instance have played 54 games, but 7 of those were tournament games. That makes 47 actual games, which if the player wasn't there literally from the start, would mean that my players should only be finishing their 3rd season.

Of course, the average player on my team only lasts 20 games anyway, so overall.. it really wouldn't matter that much. Like my legend who is 33 games (27 without tournament). 40k in agent fees? yes i'll pay that to keep a legend.
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:19 Reply with quote Back to top

How will redraft help against Bomber? Wont redrft just make teams with solid starting skills like Dwafs, Chorfs, Humans and Orcs better. Redraft will probably "help" mostly against the various chaos teams that need to gain many skills to be effective.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I guess that with Season Re-Draft huge Treasury will be more rare, so in theory people could refrain from spending 50k to hire him because they could need to save gold to replace players.
If you have 300k in the Treasury spending 50k is not a problem, if you have 100k and you risk to lack the gold to replace an injured Blocker maybe you don't hire Bomber.
Also, consider this: facing Bomber on a not super developed team is a thing, facing Bomber on a Chaos Dwarf team with a MA 8 Blodge Bull Centaur and 4-5 Guard, MB Blockers is totally different. So, Season Re-Draft could not stop Bomber but at least would trim a bit the teams he plays on.


By the way, I wonder what is the ideal Season length and whether the official 7-game Season length has some design reason behind it (for example, preventing easy freak players' building) or it's just a random number chosen by designers.
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I would never save 50k on not hiring Bomber but some coaches might.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Treasury is a factor. That said, I hope for a price change eventually, from 50k to 100k, at least.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:48 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

By the way, I wonder what is the ideal Season length and whether the official 7-game Season length has some design reason behind it (for example, preventing easy freak players' building) or it's just a random number chosen by designers.


Probably because of people playing in eight team leagues and divisions.

The season length just being the length of your season.

I guess that 15 came about because of the BBT

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