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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Apr 28, 2021 - 21:31 Reply with quote Back to top

There is no way 'New' Nurgle are better than Underworld or Khemri in my mind.

And Therein lies the issue with how you tier the teams
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 28, 2021 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

As an aside, race-specific rankings can gamed by coaches cycling teams of the same race over and over again.
There is a huge difference between playing Wood Elves, Skaven, Undead, Norse, Amazons, Chaos Dwarfs (any top tier 1 team) for 10-15 games then retiring/stopping playing it and starting again with a new team (to benefit from rookie protection, to avoid ff bloat and to play in the sweetpot of that race) and playing the same races without cycling them with the ff bloat, without the rookie protection and not always in the sweetspot.
A solution to this exploit could be resetting the racial CR of a coach whenever he makes a new team of the same race.
For example, a 150 CR Undead coach makes an Undead team, plays it for 15 games and gains 10 CR points with that race, then stops playing it and makes a new Undead team from scratch. His racial Undead CR is reset from 160 back to 150.
That would make cycling useless to game the racial CR.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 28, 2021 - 21:57 Reply with quote Back to top

XpherAndTheAxes wrote:
..and if to protect my CR i have to skip inducements then it might be time to stop playing in box

CR is not important enough to choose the division you play in for.
About all a high CR does is put some people off playing you in ranked. something nice to show, but little more than that. And if you are using lower tier teams you are probably never going to have a really high CR whatever division.
Matchmaking will change a bit in the new rules as you wont be playing teams with loads of high skilled players.

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backelie



Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2022 - 14:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Almost a new year, why not necro a super old discussion?!

MattDakka wrote:
A solution to this exploit could be resetting the racial CR of a coach whenever he makes a new team of the same race.
For example, a 150 CR Undead coach makes an Undead team, plays it for 15 games and gains 10 CR points with that race, then stops playing it and makes a new Undead team from scratch. His racial Undead CR is reset from 160 back to 150.
That would make cycling useless to game the racial CR.


Let's say Undead-Ulf plays a team that is great at lowish TV in the box and goes 7W-3L.
They dont want to play them at higher TV so they make a new team, and do the same thing another 5 times.

When Boxer-Brian gets drawn against Undead-Ulf in the box, should Boxer-Brian's CR gain/loss be based on the fact that Undead-Ulf is in fact winning 70% of their games, or based on what hypothetical winrate Undead-Ulf might have if they also played at high TV?


A rating is by its nature a measurement, not a score*.

We can choose to view it as a score for our own pleasure, but if we come up with solutions to fix the system based on that view, -ignoring what effects the solution has on the actual usefulness of the system as a measurement- well, then those solutions will not be useful.



(*This difference isn't obvious to everyone, but it becomes a lot more obvious if you have a match maker based on rating. If you "punish" misbehaving players by lowering their rating -as if it were a score- then the effect is they get to play a bunch of free wins as they cruise back up to the rating that their skill will naturally afford them, leaving a trail of frustrated opponents in their wake.)
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2022 - 16:51 Reply with quote Back to top

backelie wrote:
Almost a new year, why not necro a super old discussion?!


Sure, but it didn't need to be this one. Smile

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