xKKDvaKx
Joined: Jun 12, 2025
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 Posted:
Nov 27, 2025 - 02:17 |
 
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In theory the maximum ag or pa is 1+ but as rules says, a 1d6 roll cant be modified under 1 independent of modifiers, so f.e. any not natural 1 roll dice will be a dodge succes if the player have ag 1+? I hope i explined my doubt right
Or with pa1+, its no sense to choose up to pa 1+ if a rule says that any result of 1 after modifier is a ball lost, right?
Perhaps i understood bad or the translation on my language is wrong. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Nov 27, 2025 - 02:52 |
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xKKDvaKx
Joined: Jun 12, 2025
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Nov 27, 2025 - 10:25 |
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Thank for tje document. So pa1+ is absurd to improve it, a bad design of the rules let you improve to pa 1+
And ag 1+ seems extra powerful
I hope they change it, i think just leting apply modifiers under 1 and let do precise passes with a modified roll of 1 on pa 1+, so as described you do a good pass if succes the pass check, later talk about fail with non natural 1 but i think its with the idea if you dont pass the check |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 27, 2025 - 11:54 |
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yeah this is a known issue... many have written to games workshop asking for this to be FAQd ASAP ...
Hopefully we get an FAQ before the scheduled one in May |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Nov 27, 2025 - 12:13 |
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Not arguing against the badly written AG 1+ and PA 1+ (I agree that makes no sense) but, just for the sake of nitpicking, you could take +PA on a PA 2+ player to make up for -PA permanent injury.
In that case having PA 1+ with -1 PA would become PA 2+. |
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Vicen
Joined: Jan 05, 2023
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Nov 27, 2025 - 12:22 |
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"We improved the pass", they said.
They nerfed it instead!
| Garion wrote: | | Hopefully we get an FAQ before the scheduled one in May |
If they say that PA 1+ works after the modifier, then a rule says that the result cannot be less than 1 after the modifier. That would be like saying with PA 1+ you can make long bombs in the middle of a lot of tackle zones (without nerves of steel), and all you have to do is not roll a natural 1.
Moreover, regarding dodging, this means that there is no longer any advantage te be a Stunty players, if elves AG 1+ ignore tackle zones. (Same reasoning applies to big hand, pogo...)
The two only option the FAQ/Errata can do is:
- write that the maximum improvement in PA is logically 2+. And, for obvious balancing reasons, they must now also write that AG 2+ is the maximum.
or
- write that modifiers cannot lead to a result lower than 0. And change the fumble rule to either a natural 1 or 0 after applying the modifiers. |
Last edited by Vicen on Nov 27, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 27, 2025 - 13:20 |
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I disagree that there is nothing they can do. They can completely re-write the rule, or explain their intent in the FAQ if they wish...
They also could limit Pa as you say to max 2+... the problem there though is that they couldn't do the same for Ag, because Ag1+ already exists on star players.
But yeah... I think the whole community is pretty dismayed about this one. It clearly isn't their intent, especially as +Ag has been made cheaper too. There's no way they'd make it cheaper and also broken beyond belief too.
It's a big oversight |
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Vicen
Joined: Jan 05, 2023
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Nov 27, 2025 - 13:23 |
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| Garion wrote: | | I disagree that there is nothing they can do. |
Didn't I suggest two solutions? So we don't disagree on that.
| Garion wrote: |
They also could limit Pa as you say to max 2+... the problem there though is that they couldn't do the same for Ag, because Ag1+ already exists on star players.
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This therefore implies changing the lower limit after modifiers from 1 to 0.
This seems to be the most effective way to resolve the issue, with minimal rewriting. |
Last edited by Vicen on Nov 27, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 27, 2025 - 13:36 |
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| Vicen wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | I disagree that there is nothing they can do. |
Didn't I suggest two solutions? So there is no disagreement.
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yeah I was responding to your post before you edited... you said there's nothing they can do initially. but then retracted that and did a longer post 
| Vicen wrote: |
This therefore implies changing the lower limit after modifiers from 1 to 0. |
Yeah possibly |
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Vicen
Joined: Jan 05, 2023
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Nov 27, 2025 - 13:45 |
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Okay, my bad. My initial phrasing was poor. It's difficult to express yourself subtly when it's not your native language. But to be honest, even in my natural language, I frequently have to correct my initial posts. ^^' |
Last edited by Vicen on Nov 27, 2025; edited 2 times in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 27, 2025 - 13:48 |
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| Vicen wrote: | | Okay, my bad. My initial phrasing was poor. It's difficult to express yourself subtly when it's not your native language. |
It's quite alright |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Nov 27, 2025 - 14:59 |
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Clean fix: fumble is a natural 1 or a modified 0 or less.
Parsimonious fix: test for fumble or accurate on natural 1 or 6; then if not, modify, check against PA; then, if inaccurate, test for modified 1 and fumble.
I don't see how professionals stumble on this stuff. |
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Eboncrow
Joined: May 20, 2019
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Nov 27, 2025 - 16:51 |
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"Professionals" is a strong word for GW's rules writers... |
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CrisisChris
Joined: Dec 11, 2023
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Nov 27, 2025 - 18:26 |
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Maybe it is a language barrier or due to the fact that I did not read the new rulebook yet, but I do not get it here...
AG and PA modifiers are applied with positive signs, right? So a AG 1+ player dodging into 3 TZ is dodging on a 4+, while a AG 2+ player would do so on a 5+... I do not see any modifiers 'below 1' here. The same applies to passing rolls. |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Nov 27, 2025 - 20:08 |
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| CrisisChris wrote: | Maybe it is a language barrier or due to the fact that I did not read the new rulebook yet, but I do not get it here...
AG and PA modifiers are applied with positive signs, right? So a AG 1+ player dodging into 3 TZ is dodging on a 4+, while a AG 2+ player would do so on a 5+... I do not see any modifiers 'below 1' here. The same applies to passing rolls. |
No, this is the core of the whole thing. Most players in the game think of modifiers as changing the target number. They do not!
An AG1+ player into 3 tackle zones does not dodge on a 4+, they dodge on a 1+. An AG1+ player does everything on a 1+, always. What you do is modify the dice roll, not the target value.
So roll a 6 in 3 tackle zones: now you rolled a 3.
Roll a 5: now you rolled a 2.
Roll a 4: now you rolled a 1.
Roll a 3: now you rolled a 1.
Roll a 2: now you rolled a 1.
Roll a 1: yeah, you rolled a 1.
(Those latter results of course because a dice roll cannot be modified below a 1)
Now check to see if you rolled a 1+, because you're AG1+. Hooray, you did! |
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