JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 22, 2026 - 17:03 |
 
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We don't know costs, either. That's a really big deal. Cost, Lion Warrior MA, Skill Access, Special Rule, and anything up their sleeve still. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jan 22, 2026 - 17:41 |
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Yeah, and I believe the article mentioned there was a special rule.
We do know the linos are 5k cheaper than 2020 linos, which is big (and also hilariously showed how little the hosts of the reveal stream knew about blood bowl as they complained that the only downside of the linos was they were expensive... as they got cheaper than they were before.) |
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JohnDaker
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
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Jan 22, 2026 - 18:21 |
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If the linemen have same stats and price as dark elves linemen, then the DE ones would be slightly better? as the HE ones will most likely not have access to devious skills |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 22, 2026 - 18:23 |
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| Drrek wrote: |
We do know the linos are 5k cheaper than 2020 linos, which is big (and also hilariously showed how little the hosts of the reveal stream knew about blood bowl as they complained that the only downside of the linos was they were expensive... as they got cheaper than they were before.) |
1) Facepalm for the hosts;
2) Some time ago I wrote that Elves were overpriced and I would have decreased their costs by 5k. Glad it came true with BB2025 rules.  |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 22, 2026 - 18:59 |
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| JohnDaker wrote: | | If the linemen have same stats and price as dark elves linemen, then the DE ones would be slightly better? as the HE ones will most likely not have access to devious skills |
We don't know their skill access. For all we know, they have Passing. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Jan 22, 2026 - 19:30 |
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moving it to the other thread. |
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JohnDaker
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
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Jan 22, 2026 - 20:18 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | We don't know their skill access. For all we know, they have Passing. |
That's a possibility. What would be better secondary access to D or P? |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 22, 2026 - 20:24 |
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Secondary access to either doesn't matter. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jan 22, 2026 - 20:27 |
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Secondary access to devious matters, though not much. But still, dirty player is a useful thing to have access to in certain metas or leagues where there are teams with specific players that you very much want to remove. |
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JohnDaker
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
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Jan 22, 2026 - 20:36 |
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Agree, so even if they were to give them P access, the dark elves linemen would be a tiny bit better.
And Dirty Player is an essential skill to have to fight against stalling... 
sorry  |
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Zlefin
Joined: Apr 14, 2005
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Jan 23, 2026 - 03:51 |
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| Drrek wrote: | | Garion wrote: | I've still not seem 1 argument or point that explains why stalling is negative. Orvwjy more sacking would be beneficial. The game has incredible tactical depth already. Every suggestion I've seen would either make the game more luck decendant/more dicey or it would remove the rich tactical depth the game offers and turn it in to Dreadball, which is essentially blood biwl where you can't stall... and it's tactically bereft.
Removing stalling is as fundamental as removing offside in football. It would just destroy the game |
It's a classic case of people thinking they know what they want from a game without actually knowing. Much like the Magic the Gathering player who thinks counterspells shouldn't exist because it doesn't feel fun to have your spell countered without understanding the importance they play in game balance.
While I think GW does a pretty abysmal job of balancing BB, when I see these type of threads, it makes me glad the community doesn't balance things.
As far as high elfs go, really have to see the stats to judge them, but I'm not overly impressed by the skill suite revealed. |
that's not a convincing argument cuz the same point could just be made about you; and similar points about how often false claims of skill-testing are done by people. You sound no different from those who said there had to be trash commons in the draft pool, who were proven wrong in time as WotC also covered and mentioned in its articles.
It's also really quite rude to hate on people so much for having different but reasonable opinions about a game, and also proven thoruoghly false by the numerous magic articles, which just goes to show you don't understand game design nearly as well as you think you do. So please stop hating on people who're just trying to talk about ways to increase enjoyment of a game they enjoy. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jan 23, 2026 - 04:04 |
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Its not hating to state that I think someone is fundamentally wrong about what is good for the game. Stalling can feel bad while not actually being a thing that would be healthy to remove from the game.
So someone who feels bad when they get stalled against I cannot argue with that they should suddenly enjoy it when it happens, only that they are missing the importance it has in design. Sometimes a thing that is unfun is still the better option than the alternative.
And trash commons not being in the pool is not necessarily a good thing for the health of the standard MTG game (though it is certainly better for draft experience), because it pushes the pushed cards to be even more and more pushed to stand out against the now better commons, and I think standard has been suffering for it. But that's kind of my point too, things have design trade-offs and something that might seem more fun in a vacuum can be bad for game health in other areas.
Its not hating or attacking to say I think someone is wrong, and frankly the attitude that it is is both exhausting and negative to having any sort of discussion. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 23, 2026 - 07:25 |
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I think "solving" stalling is silly. I don't think anti-stalling mechanics are inherently bad, but not because stalling is bad for the game. I think that whatever the dominant strategy is, you want to nerf it, just on principle. It's not that you want to stop people from doing it, just that you want another avenue for decision-making.
To that effect, I don't hate what they did, and I also don't think it will stop stalling from happening, except by their definition. It's another thing to consider, it will occasionally lead to higher scores (like, enough to form a small bump in the aggregate), and it comes with a backdoor shuttling of 10k per match to hopeless teams.
I see where this is going. I don't think the community gives this design team enough credit. I think they're more Lieutenant Columbo, less Inspector Clousseau. At least this time around, but I get the feeling the last three editions have been designed to a template structure (albeit one they've given some slack, perhaps).
Maybe that's too much credit, but even if not, the moving parts in this edition were put together with a lot more care than it looks like on the surface: things you wouldn't expect to play into each other, do. It only looks hamfisted if you're looking at it from a 2020 user perspective, and frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that were deliberate, too, or if at least it feels like they were cognizant of it and leaned into it a bit. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 23, 2026 - 08:05 |
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Again Drekk is spot on. It s actually important thst this discussion around stalling is nipped in the bud. Because stalling is so fundamental to the game design. And banning stalling or any of the other awful ideas I've read would ruin for me what is the best table top game ever created. The reason it's so important to call out these awful ideas is not to be mean. It's because GW does actually listen and act on feedback. That why they've edged towards trying to do something to stop stalling in the last edition and the new one, and the steps they've taken so far are already detrimental to the game. If they keep going down this path they'll end up with a game like Dreadball. And again.. please go play dreadball. It's crap, and tactically bereft, but it is the game blood bowl would be if you can't stall. And it's terrible. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 23, 2026 - 12:02 |
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| Garion wrote: | | The reason it's so important to call out these awful ideas is not to be mean. It's because GW does actually listen and act on feedback. That why they've edged towards trying to do something to stop stalling in the last edition and the new one, and the steps they've taken so far are already detrimental to the game. |
But wait, are game designers the smart guys making good rules or not? Make up your mind.
You wrote:
| Garion wrote: | | Thank god the people that think stalling needs to be "fixed" are nowhere near the game design... |
So, either they are good game designers, ignoring the ideas of the: "people that think stalling needs to be "fixed"" or they are fickle game designers, without their own ideas, trying to please people with their rules.
Do game designers have their own will or not?
If you trust them, you should not care if people express their feedback discussing awful ideas, because the smart game designers should just ignore them, for the "greater good" of the game. |
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