Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Apr 08, 2026 - 12:42 |
 
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| Garion wrote: | Then each of the different rule sets have different forms of player progression, skill allocation, team management and important in the seasons and perpetual rules - different ways of keeping teams in check developmentally... Seasons would function in a similar way to now and be for TT short length leagues that renew each season, and perpetual rules would be for a truly perpetual environment.
It would be really easy to do. |
Doesn't this already exist with the deliberately distinct League play, Matched play and Exhibition play formats?
Even if you stick rigidly to the rulebook rules and don't house rule anything, season length and redraft budget cap (which determine the degree to which team development is checked) are entirely within the discretion of the league commissioner. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 08, 2026 - 12:59 |
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| Chingis wrote: | | Garion wrote: | Then each of the different rule sets have different forms of player progression, skill allocation, team management and important in the seasons and perpetual rules - different ways of keeping teams in check developmentally... Seasons would function in a similar way to now and be for TT short length leagues that renew each season, and perpetual rules would be for a truly perpetual environment.
It would be really easy to do. |
Doesn't this already exist with the deliberately distinct League play, Matched play and Exhibition play formats?
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Yes and no. They are currently poorly defined. I'd argue there are only 2 forms of play in the book currently. The 3rd needed is perpetual league. That's what crp was trying to achieve. Read my blog from 2012 ish if you want to read about that...
| Chingis wrote: |
Even if you stick rigidly to the rulebook rules and don't house rule anything, season length and redraft budget cap (which determine the degree to which team development is checked) are entirely within the discretion of the league commissioner. |
Yeah those adjustable parameters are nice to have. But they are ultimately still a function of short length leagues with seasons.
I'm talking about a different set of rules that allows for a truly perpetual environment as the 3rd set.
I already know how I'd arrange all of this
And have it mostly written out. I'm happy to share it with you when finished. It might make more sense when you see it in one place. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Apr 09, 2026 - 02:11 |
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I mostly play league so the solution for league is probably something like putting a cap on the number of teams of the same race and mandating everyone use the 3spp random singles roll and banning any other skill ups. But the current edition absolutely kills team diversity for something like perpetual matchmaking due to the lack of positions, how expensive doubles are in terms of spp and TV and just the fact skills aren't balanced and with seasons you can't get teams up to the same size people used to have back in the clawpomb era where people took weird skills because what else were you going to do when your players already had 4+ skills.
The current rules are built around low TV which probably makes more sense for balance and was likely always the intention with NAF, 1 off exhibition and league being the playstyles described in the rules and the fact it's annoying to deal with a lot of skills on table top.
but like others have said, the whole thing is on rails due to some skills just being way better and dropping a lot of positionals from 0-4 to 0-2 means you don't have the flexibility to build that third or fourth archetype that you might have built in the old rules. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Apr 09, 2026 - 03:39 |
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Oh and I don't play rats so this isn't my issue, but why would a skaven coach take two heads, extra arms or big hand for 40k because it's a double when +ag is 30k |
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CrisisChris
Joined: Dec 11, 2023
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Apr 09, 2026 - 09:10 |
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| ph0enyx13 wrote: | | Oh and I don't play rats so this isn't my issue, but why would a skaven coach take two heads, extra arms or big hand for 40k because it's a double when +ag is 30k |
Only reason would be to take it earlier (less SPP needed)
I read the whole threat now, but I do not claim to remember every tiny bit or even be able to anticipate all the implications of the discussed changed, BUT... 
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- I really do not get why there are limitations to a skill access, while there is none to Stats access.
- I really like the idea of a skill tree with dependancies between skills or even Stats. MB on a S2 player (who would do that!) should be something different than on a S4 player and I would say S4 should be a minimum for having MB
- I also like the clean up of skill categories and the different pricing. We have that with Stats already. Why not further dive into this with skills? Introducing Tier 1 (current elite?), Tier 2 (other usefull skills) and Tier 3... or allow random rolls only for those Tier 3 but price them very low.
On the one handside I like the idea of bigger variety. On the other hand balance need to be kept.
Since Matt is always arguing about a reduced number of Skill slots to prevent stat freaks. What do you think about a maximum for Positionals (e.g. 3) and linemen still keep the 6 slots? Would that lead to a development from stat freaks to a broader skill distribution / more varied teams? |
Last edited by CrisisChris on Apr 09, 2026; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2026 - 11:32 |
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| Garion wrote: |
Yeah those adjustable parameters are nice to have. But they are ultimately still a function of short length leagues with seasons.
I'm talking about a different set of rules that allows for a truly perpetual environment as the 3rd set.
I already know how I'd arrange all of this
And have it mostly written out. I'm happy to share it with you when finished. It might make more sense when you see it in one place. |
I'm content with modified CRP. 
What are your rules? Are they anything more than that?
What do you mean by "perpetual"? You could say that it is perpetual now. Just crap perpetual.
You can have seasons with perpetual if redraft works better.
I can't really be arsed with GW rules. Run your league your own way.
Play it how you like it.
But make too many changes and people won't agree on enough of them. |
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Secret League rosters, old style skill progression, no re-draft OR full 2016 rules. OR... 4000k All Stars! 21st Anniversary Bowl - Coming April! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 09, 2026 - 11:49 |
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| CrisisChris wrote: |
Since Matt is always arguing about a reduced number of Skill slots to prevent stat freaks. What do you think about a maximum for Positionals (e.g. 3) and linemen still keep the 6 slots? Would that lead to a development from stat freaks to a broader skill distribution / more varied teams? |
With Season Re-Draft it would be hard to keep Linemen with 6 skills. It's better to focus on the positionals, because they have better/more default skills and better skill access and you have to develop them fast, for them to have an impact on team's performance as soon as possible.
I think that Linemen with 6 skills would work better without Season Re-Draft, but then people could build a freak Lineman ball carrier, which is what my idea of reducing the skill slots and capping the stat boosts tries to fix.
As an aside, I quit this thread now, because I don't want to risk to disturb this Garion's thread with my unhelpful posts and my snide comments. |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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Apr 09, 2026 - 16:28 |
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My first impressions. Im rubbish now, but I will adjust.
Orks & HE look strong out the Gate at tv1000. With claw & with 3mb.
The longer the season the more this looks like a nurgle edition. (Im calling bb2020 dwarf edition). They got everything going for them.
1) 7/7 of their positionals come with built in block protection (FA, high av, steady footing, regen).
2) only gets better with time. Even rotters have dirty player Access.
3) standfirm, pickmeup, FA, av9 as a starter is a lot.
Everybody has to have an anti nurgle contingency plan. I can see them trending over orks in popularity long term.
Shame the icons for nurgle are a bit ugly 🥶 |
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Vicen
Joined: Jan 05, 2023
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Apr 09, 2026 - 18:30 |
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| CrisisChris wrote: |
- I also like the clean up of skill categories and the different pricing. We have that with Stats already. Why not further dive into this with skills? Introducing Tier 1 (current elite?), Tier 2 (other usefull skills) and Tier 3... or allow random rolls only for those Tier 3 but price them very low.
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Nice idea. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Apr 09, 2026 - 18:55 |
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| Carnis wrote: | My first impressions. Im rubbish now, but I will adjust.
Orks & HE look strong out the Gate at tv1000. With claw & with 3mb.
The longer the season the more this looks like a nurgle edition. (Im calling bb2020 dwarf edition). They got everything going for them.
1) 7/7 of their positionals come with built in block protection (FA, high av, steady footing, regen).
2) only gets better with time. Even rotters have dirty player Access.
3) standfirm, pickmeup, FA, av9 as a starter is a lot.
Everybody has to have an anti nurgle contingency plan. I can see them trending over orks in popularity long term.
Shame the icons for nurgle are a bit ugly 🥶 |
Nurgz gonna Nurg! Finally a return to the CRP glory days! |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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Apr 09, 2026 - 20:10 |
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BitsHammer
Joined: Sep 05, 2020
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Apr 10, 2026 - 03:39 |
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Having played into Snotlings this week I can say that they don't feel like a Stunty team this season. I feel like taking Secret Weapon off the Pump Wagons wasn't done with a thought on how that'd change the way the team plays. People don't need to be conservative with them so they feel more like playing into Ogres.
Honestly, I'm not sure the best way to "fix" them. Maybe if their linemen counted for half for TV instead of free it might balance things a bit more since they are a fairly strong team that gets to load up on inducements and I don't think they should lose the inducement side of their design, but have it toned down a bit.
Then again the fact I had to deal with the pump wagons, trolls, Fungus the Loon, and more side step than I could shake a stick at really just made me feel like I couldn't do much back into them most of the game. Getting Fungus off the pitch helped a lot but it took a lot to really break through the team, and even then I still lost into them fairly handily (my inability to break armor this season continues to be a problem above and beyond the rest of the issues I was having. At one point I failed to break Snotling armor even with Mighty Blow).
It wasn't the worst game I've ever had, but it was one of the ones that felt like I had no ability to actually change the flow of the game and even when I had the ball it didn't feel like I was actually on the offensive. Very rough game all around. I mean at one point I was one player away from being able to concede because I had so many casualties and knocked out players on the pitch during that drive.
EDIT:
On a different note, I have mixed feelings on my vampires. I feel like the Thralls are underwhelming, but if I don't have them on the field the team falls apart but Bloodlust is basically like taking Elves and slapping Animal Savagery on all of them. It's fine if you can roll dice well, but you have to count on it not working constantly because if you don't plan around needing to bite a thrall that's the moment it bites you in the backside.
I remain the best at removing my players off the pitch thanks to how many players I've chewed on this season (I average 3-4 Thralls removed by biting per game).
It's definitely a team that struggles in league if you can't get skills on things early enough, or if you're like me and only seem being able to do casualties with my Thralls so the SPP going around is pretty tight, it generally becomes kind of a problem. Like you want skills so you can be more effective, but the team's TV bloats so fast and so easily that it really tanks the team to develop things, or bring in too much redundancy to your positionals that I just feel like the team is more balanced around tournaments instead of regular leagues.
Which isn't bad design, but it's one of those things that I am struggling to be sure if my apprehensions are around a team that I'm just not developing well, or if the issue is the team isn't good for the format, or if there is a real design issue built into the team on purpose for balance reasons and it's left me unable to crack it properly. Possibly all three.
Oh well, we're halfway through the season and then we have playoffs. Right now it unless something drastically shifts in the next four weeks Flings and Snotlings seem to be our top runners for the playoffs as the only undefeated teams in the league right now. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Apr 10, 2026 - 06:06 |
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| Carnis wrote: |
Shame the icons for nurgle are a bit ugly 🥶 |
the GW models for nurgle are a bit ugly. they're the only race I'm interested in either thematically or mechanically that I don't have models for |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 10, 2026 - 11:15 |
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| BitsHammer wrote: |
On a different note, I have mixed feelings on my vampires. I feel like the Thralls are underwhelming, but if I don't have them on the field the team falls apart but Bloodlust is basically like taking Elves and slapping Animal Savagery on all of them. It's fine if you can roll dice well, but you have to count on it not working constantly because if you don't plan around needing to bite a thrall that's the moment it bites you in the backside.
I remain the best at removing my players off the pitch thanks to how many players I've chewed on this season (I average 3-4 Thralls removed by biting per game). |
Check martinseptim's vamp games. He rocks.
Im many Times Happy not activating vamps and doing things with thralls.
The thrower vamps can Make spp with backfield comps.
Vamps are not The strongest this season. Av7 can Hurt. Hypno is 3+. High skill team.
Pro can help. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 10, 2026 - 11:42 |
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| koadah wrote: |
I'm content with modified CRP.
What are your rules? Are they anything more than that?
What do you mean by "perpetual"? You could say that it is perpetual now. Just crap perpetual.
You can have seasons with perpetual if redraft works better.
I can't really be arsed with GW rules. Run your league your own way.
Play it how you like it.
But make too many changes and people won't agree on enough of them. |
Not sure what you mean by Are they Anything more than that? do you mean are they modified CRP rules? In which case no, my rules are mostly taking what we've learned works and is good from 3rd ed up to today. Plus a few new team management mechanics that improve the game. But yeah I guess in some ways it's closer to CRP than what we have now.
I'll show you when they're all put together and in one place, so far they're spread over many documents. I want to finish that project, but right now I'm just playing some games... something i've not done for a long time.
and by Perpetual I mean truly perpetual. No Seasons, no force retiring half your team. CRP was truly perpetual. As covered in my blog about the transition of the game from lrb4 to crp back in 2012 ish...
Seasons and Truely perpetual are different things to me.
And yeah I think "screw GW rules" is fine in theory. But most people stick pretty close to them... |
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