Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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 Posted:
Apr 10, 2026 - 19:46 |
 
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| Carnis wrote: | | Loon wrote: | | GW is absolutely terrible at creating BB rules. This edition is absolute crap. My 10 year old could have done a better job. The only reason to stick with this terrible rule set is to not get our various play venues on the GW legal naughty list. |
Why crap? Whats wrong with the ruleset? IMO its better than what we've had before and the mistakes here & there are minor.
Some issues with team design, but that is not a core rules problem. |
Core rules are “fine”, all they fixed was wildly inaccurate which sucked but still nobody is passing this edition. The rest of the rules are basically a port. The problem is team design and skills, which are near universally bad. |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 05:45 |
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| Loon wrote: |
GW is absolutely terrible at creating BB rules. This edition is absolute crap. My 10 year old could have done a better job. The only reason to stick with this terrible rule set is to not get our various play venues on the GW legal naughty list. |
I think a lot of this has to do with selling models and stuff. if you have a game and don't need to sell models you can just make the rules and then tweak them for balance if there is an issue LRB style. With GW they have to sell minis to pay for the rules so the rules need to support changing the minis you already have so you need to buy new ones, changing the rules so you need a new book and creating new teams/factions with new positionals you need to buy. At this point new teams need new skills too since we have multiple human, elf, undead, chaos and orc factions and they need to be different than the other factions and it's easier to differentiate via skills than stat lines or number of units. For the longest time high elves and pro elves didn't really have identities because it was just
>dark elves have better armor and 4 blitzers and wood elves are fast and have war dancers |
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Vicen
Joined: Jan 05, 2023
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 05:53 |
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| Loon wrote: |
Core rules are “fine”, all they fixed was wildly inaccurate which sucked but still nobody is passing this edition. The rest of the rules are basically a port. The problem is team design and skills, which are near universally bad. |
Core rules:
| Quote: | PASSING 1+
PA1+ is functionally identical to PA2+ since a modified passing roll of 1 is a fumble. Again,
the modifiers can not push the result below 1 |
Wildly are fumble now, not innacurate. So it's not better.
For exemple, Hail Mary Pass is ineffective (Reminds me of the old 3.5 edition, where all you had to do an innacurate pass was avoid rolling a natural 1)
And I won't even get into all the other issues.
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The book isn't well written. Although, sometimes, readers' interpretations may be a bit off the mark as well. (like those not-so-bright guys who thought that swarming allows them to deploy in the opponent's field) |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 09:16 |
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| ph0enyx13 wrote: | | Loon wrote: |
GW is absolutely terrible at creating BB rules. This edition is absolute crap. My 10 year old could have done a better job. The only reason to stick with this terrible rule set is to not get our various play venues on the GW legal naughty list. |
I think a lot of this has to do with selling models and stuff. if you have a game and don't need to sell models you can just make the rules and then tweak them for balance if there is an issue LRB style. With GW they have to sell minis to pay for the rules so the rules need to support changing the minis you already have so you need to buy new ones, changing the rules so you need a new book and creating new teams/factions with new positionals you need to buy. At this point new teams need new skills too since we have multiple human, elf, undead, chaos and orc factions and they need to be different than the other factions and it's easier to differentiate via skills than stat lines or number of units. For the longest time high elves and pro elves didn't really have identities because it was just
>dark elves have better armor and 4 blitzers and wood elves are fast and have war dancers |
Which basically means it'll never be very good. If they ever get lucky and make it to mostly good, they'll just ruin it again next time. 
Edit: "Good" being subjective of course.  |
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Official + Secret League rosters, old style skill progression, NO re-draft OR full 2016 rules. OR... 4000TV All Star Bowl - ALWAYS recruiting! |
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Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 15:44 |
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| Vicen wrote: | | Loon wrote: |
Core rules are “fine”, all they fixed was wildly inaccurate which sucked but still nobody is passing this edition. The rest of the rules are basically a port. The problem is team design and skills, which are near universally bad. |
Core rules:
| Quote: | PASSING 1+
PA1+ is functionally identical to PA2+ since a modified passing roll of 1 is a fumble. Again,
the modifiers can not push the result below 1 |
Wildly are fumble now, not innacurate. So it's not better.
For exemple, Hail Mary Pass is ineffective (Reminds me of the old 3.5 edition, where all you had to do an innacurate pass was avoid rolling a natural 1)
And I won't even get into all the other issues.
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The book isn't well written. Although, sometimes, readers' interpretations may be a bit off the mark as well. (like those not-so-bright guys who thought that swarming allows them to deploy in the opponent's field) |
Yes my original contention was that the rules suck, and was making the concession that they fixed wildly inaccurate. But as you point out, the fix doesn’t make passing better, just very slightly less punishing. The rules are a shit show and my whole point is that the only functional reason to use official rules is to avoid legal action. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 16:22 |
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Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 16:46 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Loon wrote: |
Yes my original contention was that the rules suck, and was making the concession that they fixed wildly inaccurate. But as you point out, the fix doesn’t make passing better, just very slightly less punishing. The rules are a shit show and my whole point is that the only functional reason to use official rules is to avoid legal action. |
Why legal action?
The real reason is that more people are likely to turn up. |
I don’t accept this unproven claim. The people that would show up would show up more regularly with better rules. The person that would decline to show up because of non GW official rules are fictional.
I’m not talking about a random homebrew ruleset for each tournament, I’m saying the NAF should make their own standardized official ruleset that does now follow GW. If that happened a very small percentage of people would bother playing GW rules and those folks wouldn’t play tournaments anyways. Yes Cyanide would die, which it should because that is also a garbage product. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 17:09 |
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Nah, Loon, I don't think you get the psychology of it. Not sure I do either, but I totally see it, on a gut level.
I don't want to play a game stuck in the past. If I dislike the new rules, and after long consideration I do dislike them very much, I'll either play with a ruleset I dislike, or not play at all. If you offer me an event in a dated ruleset, I'll skip it. If you offer me an event in a current but underwhelming ruleset, I'll consider it but probably skip. And I'm not a bandwagoner by any stretch: I just don't like going back in community games. It feels like wallowing.
Funny enough, I have no qualms about playing old RPG editions, but I think that's because RPG is not about fanatical detail to rules precision: I wouldn't play Magic by old rules unless they were explicit house rules built off a contemporary template, but in RPG, the engine is just another tool in the shed.
Also, I can see it if the new rules are an absolute 1000% betrayal of the principles in the old rules, like Oldhammer vs AoS, not that any of that was my jam, but I get it. But this isn't that. Let me know if they get rid of the Turnover Rule or something. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 17:34 |
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| Loon wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | Loon wrote: |
Yes my original contention was that the rules suck, and was making the concession that they fixed wildly inaccurate. But as you point out, the fix doesn’t make passing better, just very slightly less punishing. The rules are a shit show and my whole point is that the only functional reason to use official rules is to avoid legal action. |
Why legal action?
The real reason is that more people are likely to turn up. |
I don’t accept this unproven claim. The people that would show up would show up more regularly with better rules. The person that would decline to show up because of non GW official rules are fictional.
I’m not talking about a random homebrew ruleset for each tournament, I’m saying the NAF should make their own standardized official ruleset that does now follow GW. If that happened a very small percentage of people would bother playing GW rules and those folks wouldn’t play tournaments anyways. Yes Cyanide would die, which it should because that is also a garbage product. |
I think you have fallen into the classic trap of thinking competitive play of games is the most common type of play. I can assure you that it would not be a very small percentage of people playing GW rules, because the majority of games played are going to be people playing random games in a league at their local game store. Much like how WOTC says the most played type of magic by far is people playing random games of kitchen table magic with friends.
A tournament group going mass mutiny against the rules is going to completely alienate any of those casual players that might happen to want to try a tournament. It would completely limit growth in the game. The rules are such a mess right now, because of poor wordings that have forced both fummbl and NAF to make a large amount of house rulings, but to completely ignore the GW rules would be a death sentence to growth, and probably turn off a number of entrenched players too. Its just not a smart move.
Hopefully GW will at least release an FAQ fixing some of the blatant problems with the edition at some point. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 17:58 |
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| Drrek wrote: |
Hopefully GW will at least release an FAQ fixing some of the blatant problems with the edition at some point. |
yar... a lot is riding on this FAQ... game could really get royally screwed if they double down on some bad writing... |
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Loon
Joined: Aug 14, 2024
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 18:09 |
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| Drrek wrote: |
I think you have fallen into the classic trap of thinking competitive play of games is the most common type of play. I can assure you that it would not be a very small percentage of people playing GW rules, because the majority of games played are going to be people playing random games in a league at their local game store. Much like how WOTC says the most played type of magic by far is people playing random games of kitchen table magic with friends.
A tournament group going mass mutiny against the rules is going to completely alienate any of those casual players that might happen to want to try a tournament. It would completely limit growth in the game. The rules are such a mess right now, because of poor wordings that have forced both fummbl and NAF to make a large amount of house rulings, but to completely ignore the GW rules would be a death sentence to growth, and probably turn off a number of entrenched players too. Its just not a smart move.
Hopefully GW will at least release an FAQ fixing some of the blatant problems with the edition at some point. |
Blood Bowl is by its very nature a competitive game. The ideal game state is a league. This is fundamentally different than magic or Warhammer. For those games, the competitive players are the tip of the iceberg and the kitchen table guys are the bulk of the iceberg. For Blood Bowl, the guys that treat it as a casual board game are the vast minority. If you play Blood Bowl, you play in some competitive format, whether that be a league or tournaments, or you don’t play for very long.
There is a reason blood bowl is one of GWs lowest selling IPs yet has the strongest tournament play globally. |
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Vicen
Joined: Jan 05, 2023
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2026 - 20:04 |
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| Loon wrote: | | the fix doesn’t make passing better, just very slightly less punishing. |
Best throw in BB2020, PA1+ with Cannoneer, need roll 2-6 for a long pass.
BB2025, maximum you can do at this level is a short pass. This is a nerf.
Maybe a fumble is less punishing than a wildly. But safe pass work only on a natural 1 (not on a fumble after modifiers). |
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sorry BPCalgary
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