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Poll
What direction should the E.L.F. take?
Go back to the way it used to be.
19%
 19%  [ 13 ]
Stay the course. Everything is just fine!
19%
 19%  [ 13 ]
Badges, you say... are they shiny?
28%
 28%  [ 19 ]
Will you listen to me for a change!!!
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
The ELF is dead man. Just let it go already.
24%
 24%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 66


MadTias



Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Frankenstein wrote:

Nevertheless, proper cherrypicking was the group's only true challenge admittedly, and that's exactly the kind of challenge I am not interested in at all.

Which season did you play, Frankenstein? Cherrypicking is much much harder under the "new" scoring system. The "old" scoring system actively encouraged picking. That was in fact the reason for changing it.
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 19:39 Reply with quote Back to top

That would have been season 14.
Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 19:40 Reply with quote Back to top

babelfilm wrote:
Of course it should be the best coach that wins, but do we want an elitist tourney, where only CR 155+ can play?


Sorry I don't follow your reasoning. If you have a CR of 140 and beat a CR155 coach you get the baseline score. The baseline is the CR of the opponent and not the CR of the ELFer.

No E.L.F shouldn't be elitist, but as it was before the changes it was all about cherry picking and I really don't want it to be that either.

Quote:
I am still surprised that we are now at 10 votes for "Everuthing is fine" when only 5 people completed the cycle last season...


[B] is the reason for that one.

Quote:
1. Get rid of the shutout rule. I don't see why a 1-0 game should give as much points as a 4-1 game.
2. Get rid of the bonus for 5+ touchdowns. Let the points you get for TD's be the reason to score as much as possible.
I also think that these 2 simplifications will help prevent excessive cherrypicking, since these 2 rules have driven people to search for games that they could win 5-0 or more.


No. Even without getting those extra points winning a game by 5-0 will still give you a higher score then a 3-2 game. It wont eliminate cherry picking. There is no incentive to play fairer match ups even if we remove the bonus points. Yet again we will see winners that have played 20TS down each and every game.

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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

The funny thing is though that all touchdowns are worth 1 point except the 5th, which is worth 3 points for no apparent reason.

Similar, the first touchdown against when winning is worth -3 points, whereas all other touchdowns against are worth -1 point.

Awkward extra-rules which seem to award something that's already awarded anyway.
Erythrozyt



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 20:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Uhm.. wouldn`t Frankensteins scoring mean, that only those that are in a tripple league really have a chance for the title? Within an ELF season you can only have one major and even giving the perfect racial spread during the major winning it, you only get in 4 races. If you have weekly rounds in one of the priviliged leagues, you have up to 8 races (and an even spread is even more likely).
Now I`m not sure, but most of the prestige leagues are full, so the race for ELF title would be limited to members of those leagues?
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Erythrozyt wrote:
Uhm.. wouldn`t Frankensteins scoring mean, that only those that are in a tripple league really have a chance for the title? Within an ELF season you can only have one major and even giving the perfect racial spread during the major winning it, you only get in 4 races. If you have weekly rounds in one of the priviliged leagues, you have up to 8 races (and an even spread is even more likely).
Now I`m not sure, but most of the prestige leagues are full, so the race for ELF title would be limited to members of those leagues?

Not at all. In such leagues you can't pick your opponents at all, therefore, in order to win the title, you would have to be lucky to not only face a rich variety of opponents but also win most (perhaps all) of the games against them.

A 1-game coach most likely doesn't know anything about how such leagues (or the site in general) work though. Welcome to FUMBBL anyway.
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 21:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I suspect that doubling or tripling points is very much not the way to go. I always felt that the +5 points was "right" as a compensation for not being able to metagame opponents and for the extra time it takes to play those games.

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Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 21:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Really? I'd have thought 5 points are meaningless when you can get tons of points by proper picking instead.
MadTias



Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 21:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Frankenstein wrote:
That would have been season 14.

So you've only played one season and that was before the rules change that led to the current rules and discouraged cherry-picking? And now you're posting like mad having opinions on the current system? Forgive me if i disregard your posts from now on. I for one prefer to hear from active ELF members.
MadTias



Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 21:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Frankenstein wrote:
Really? I'd have thought 5 points are meaningless when you can get tons of points by proper picking instead.

Since you haven't even tried to play in the current system would you please refrain from further trolling? Mad
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 22:01 Reply with quote Back to top

MadTias wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:
Really? I'd have thought 5 points are meaningless when you can get tons of points by proper picking instead.

Since you haven't even tried to play in the current system would you please refrain from further trolling? Mad

Not if the only difference is the Baseline. I have checked out the group for worthwhile changes after I left. And this thread seems to be about how to get back coaches to E.L.F. anyway.


Last edited by Frankenstein on Feb 22, 2009 - 01:15; edited 1 time in total
lemf



Joined: Jul 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 22:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Worms?
Erythrozyt



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2009 - 23:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Frankenstein wrote:
Erythrozyt wrote:
Uhm.. wouldn`t Frankensteins scoring mean, that only those that are in a tripple league really have a chance for the title? Within an ELF season you can only have one major and even giving the perfect racial spread during the major winning it, you only get in 4 races. If you have weekly rounds in one of the priviliged leagues, you have up to 8 races (and an even spread is even more likely).
Now I`m not sure, but most of the prestige leagues are full, so the race for ELF title would be limited to members of those leagues?

Not at all. In such leagues you can't pick your opponents at all, therefore, in order to win the title, you would have to be lucky to not only face a rich variety of opponents but also win most (perhaps all) of the games against them.

A 1-game coach most likely doesn't know anything about how such leagues (or the site in general) work though. Welcome to FUMBBL anyway.


You don`t seem to understand me... maybe because english is not my first language...

In a league you have - assuming weekly rounds - 8 chances for tripple points. That`s twice in what you can get in ranked. And in ranked you have to get to the major final in order to get those 4 games and you cannot pick your major opponents either. On the contrary, leagues tend to have an more even spread of races as opposed to the majors.

So my points stands.. your system would limit chances for the ELF title to members of such leagues
Jakob_olsen



Joined: Nov 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2009 - 00:09 Reply with quote Back to top

MadTias wrote:
Jakob_olsen wrote:

I just feel that, when we have a situation where only 5 coaches completed the cycle last season, then E.L.F is near-death,

This was because of the advent of Blackbox. Look at the top teams in last season and you'll see a good deal of B teams. It isn't very surprising if they didn't complete a cycle (since they can't choose opponents). Let's drop this line of reasoning, shall we?


I don't agree. The 8th spot in last season, for instance, is held by a ranked team only scoring 169. The 10th spot in the tournament doesn't even have 100 points.

The last season prior to the rules changes had 28 coaches complete the cycle. That dropped immediately to 12 teams with the rules changes. And it is now at 5. I do not believe that [B] is to blame. It clearly hasn't helped. But i don't think it is the real reason.
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2009 - 00:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Erythrozyt wrote:
So my points stands.. your system would limit chances for the ELF title to members of such leagues

You obviously haven't yet fully understood how E.L.F., tournaments and leagues work on FUMBBL.

And don't get me wrong, but I'm puzzled:

Why would a coach who only ever played 1 game on FUMBBL (with orcs on top of that) participate in such a discussion anyway?

(I'm merely curious, question is not meant offensive in any way)
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