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What direction should the E.L.F. take?
Go back to the way it used to be.
 19%  [ 13 ]
Stay the course. Everything is just fine!
 19%  [ 13 ]
Badges, you say... are they shiny?
 28%  [ 19 ]
Will you listen to me for a change!!!
 7%  [ 5 ]
The ELF is dead man. Just let it go already.
 24%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 66


Joined: Jun 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 02:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, all my accounting and audits are just about finished. I've had quite a few coaches messaging me about helping out and worrying that I might have pulled the plug on the league... but really I was just taking a needed mental break. So now, it's time to turn my attention back to a new year for the ELF.

I've been thinking about the what direction I want to take the league in the upcoming seasons. Scoring was altered at the start of last year to try and encourage accepting "tough" matches while penalizing cherry picking. But after playing a few times with the new rules I came to a conclusion... they're annoying.

Am I the only one that feels this way? Participation seems to have dropped in the last year and many of the old league stalwarts are missing in action. Has the cure been worse than the disease? Seems to have been... maybe I'm mistaken.

So what's going on? Is the league now too competitive... in as much as finding appropriate match ups are a pain (check the other team, check the Team Strengths, check the opponent's Coach Rating)? It looked good on paper, but after playing under these rules I've gotta say I'm not a big fan of them.

Four options lay before us.

  • Stay the course and continue with these "new" rules.
  • Roll back the changes and go back to the picking competition that the league seemed to turn into previously.
  • Switch gears and make the league less competitive and more goal oriented.
  • Something else... perhaps suggestions will spark a new league direction!?

Here's what I'm thinking of for the "less competitive" route: I've been playing some "time waster" games here and there where the objective is not to set a high score, but instead complete objectives to earn badges. For the ELF, the main feats would revolve around completing the cycle - a cycle with some losses would earn a bronze badge, no losses but some ties would earn silver and all wins would earn gold. A Blackbox cycle earns a black ribbon, a ranked tourney win earns a red, etc... And every season could have a special feats for extra honors like "inflict more casualties on orcs than they inflict on your team."

Perhaps the badges or honors or whatever could be awarded to coaches instead of their teams?

None of this is written in stone - I'm just throwing ideas out there. Give me some feedback and share your ideas for the league!

"Don't expect mercy."

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 02:38 Reply with quote Back to top

move ELF to B, to avoid any such picking claims?


Joined: Apr 28, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 02:50 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
move ELF to B, to avoid any such picking claims?

but isent finishing the cycle very dificult in B as it has limited oposition in team divirsity.

Superstition brings bad luck.

"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 02:53 Reply with quote Back to top

true.... pity


Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 03:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I find the new Baseline rules way more fun then the old rules. I don't want to go back to the farce that was E.L.F season XI.

Not sure why "old timers" stopped and I'm guessing there isn't one simple answer to that one. One reason might be there used to be themes every season, the DE, HE, WE and Pelf challenges. And I for one miss them a lot. A lot.

For my part I played less last season because all the coaches went to play in [B] so baseline games were hard to come by. But I am really excited about a new season! Very Happy

Also the fact that since we changed the rules E.L.F hasn't had any of the art work updated, so the league felt a little neglected. I have already offered Pizza to try and fix this seeing as babelfilm isn't around anymore. But I still think it's part of the reason.

So what would I like to see happen to E.L.F?

* Stay competitive.

* Your ideas about badges and ribbons could still be used even with a competitive mind-set.

* Theme the seasons in some way. (Maybe not just the old Race ones, although I love for them to still be around)
- Year of the Beard. Have to play at least 10 Dwarf games to finish the cycle.
- Raiders of the Lost Temple. The number of games vs Lizards can be substituted for another Race in a different category. (not sure if this one is even possible with the automated scoring system).
- Battle for the Throne. All Category D games has to be vs another E.L.F team.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head.

Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 04:27 Reply with quote Back to top

nice fouly, nice ideas


Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 04:45 Reply with quote Back to top

My problem with the changes was that they were at fixed limits.... there was no sliding scale. That meant that if a perfectly acceptable game approached you at CR154 or at one less TS than your team you kind of could discount it in terms of ELF points. By all means give points away for bravery and cool play but dont make it some BS fixed limit of "this is exactly cool enough" Smile

Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 07:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Mr Foulscumm had some good ideas. It would be interesting if E.M.U. were still around so there could be some good nature competition. I plan on participating in the next go around anyway.

Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 08:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I didn`t really compete last round because of [B]. I didn`t have enough time to search for [R] games as the ranked channel was deserted and with [B] only few games had even baseline.

I really like the new scoring system and I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. Though I`d really appreciate it, if [R] tourney matches would either automatically count for baseline OR have the 'equal or higher TS' count for 5 points and the CR155+ count for 5 points. Nothing is more annoying as joining a SMACK with your woodies just to realize, that your opponents are all below CR155.

Joined: Jun 02, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 08:19 Reply with quote Back to top

as an E.L.F. coach who really dropped out of the league because of the new baseline system I would like to say just few things.

Yes it's a good system, I have no actual grudge against it, but it did take the fluff out of the E.L.F. a bit which to me was one of the best things in this league. I loved the race themed seasons (well of course I did, I got a sapphire key with my high elves once, and it was one of the greatest bb moments that I've ever had real life bb included).

The badge idea sounds simple, yet compelling and it would be really nice addition. However it requires the new artwork and as someone already mentioned maybe the E.L.F. has been somewhat in shades after the move to new system.

Of course in my part there has also been real life issues that have decreased my activity, such as masters thesis, new job, moving to new city etc. But E.L.F. is one of the things I really miss, and I haven't felt the urge to come and play after the moving to new system. This is personal feeling, and completely subjective, but that's just the way it is.

I'd love to see some sort of middle road between this baseline system and the old fluffy and fun version of E.L.F. that I really loved, but alas I have no solution for it. Just opinions.

Oh, and don't in any circumstances change E.L.F. into [b], unless we want to have elfteams that never complete a cycle but get a lot of Khemri games Smile

Oh again, and please don't give up on it. It's the best league there is still.

Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 14:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I tried ELF for the first time this year, after enjoying a fun season of DMU.I had hoped ELF would have a similar kind of fun, non-cherry picking attitude. To be fair, it does seem to. However the baseline rules just seemed to make it impossible to find a game and I soon lost interest.

I posted some suggestions on the original thread if I remember correctly, mainly saying I felt the baseline rule should be kept, but relaxed. Maybe +1 point for each TS difference and CR difference up to a maximum of 5? Therefore allowing people to get the extra 10 points, but not punishing someone a whole 10 points for 0.3% CR.

I would consider having an ELF [B] team if a suitable scoring system was suggested.

Better lucky than good

Joined: Nov 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 15:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I voted for going back... E.L.F was fine with the old rules.
Sure there were cherry-pickers. Sure there were people who won because they played an insane number of games. Sure there were coaches that were just plain lucky. But who ever told you that Blood Bowl is a fair game ? It is not...

Although i voted for going back to the old rules, i actually always fealt that we should just loose the baseline score altogether. Get rid of it, it is completely unneccesary.

I am all for a new season, but i don't know if I'll be joining you if the current baseline system persists. It seems annoying to me. I also find it strange that people vote "Stay the course. Everything is just fine!" - when only 4 teams completed the cycle last season. Something has to change !

One last thing. About the graphics. I am convinced that i can talk babelfilm into updating the last few seasons. I know him well, and we actually talked about playing E.L.F just a few weeks ago. I'll have a word with him if a new season starts.

Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 16:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Great that you ask for opinions pizza, you run the bestest meta-group on FUMBBL. Cool

* A baseline system (or something similar) is the only way to make ELF competitive in R. ELF season scoring was a joke before that and I for one would leave if it went back. Sad The system is kind of annoying, yes, but no system can ever be perfect. So plz stay with a competitive season scoring. B has to be accounted for in some way though. If the baseline is perceived to be such a nuisance in R, maybe only have season scoring in B?

* Badges are a great idea! Smile That would be a cool direction to take. Doesn't rule out staying competitive either. Requires artwork though...

* ...which leads into the last point. I do really miss artwork for the last seasons. It would be high on my list of priorities to find a new artist.

Joined: Jul 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 22:06 Reply with quote Back to top

In all honesty I totally ignored the baseline rules and decided to play the season out in the old way.
Never had a problem getting a game max 10 min wait on gamefinder.
Downside I never stood a chance of getting a high score, Mind you a team as broken as my woodies is a very easy target for everyone and usually only fielded 3 players Very Happy
Thanks for keeping it going, I will continue to play while the team is alive.

Joined: Dec 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2009 - 22:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, first thing first. I have been out of the country and out of fumbbl for a while. I also switched to a mac and all the artwork is on my old PC. And I am missing a lot of the fonts used, so its a hassle to move it to my new computer.

But thats just bad excuses... I promise that I will update all the artwork as soon as possible.

As for the rules.

I personally dont like the new baseline rules. Cherry picking is a way of life, for weak elf teams. And I cant imagine how hard it must be to find a match if you have a CR of 160+.

The old racial challenges were great. It meant that I had a chance to get a medal, witout winning the entire tourney.
More challenges would be a great idea. It seems to gat people to play.

I believe EMU is dead and there should be no points for playing EMU teams.
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