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Poll
What charity should these teams donate their money to?
End the Suffering - The Pro Elf Retirement Fund
13%
 13%  [ 34 ]
The Halfling Chef Pie Fund
19%
 19%  [ 51 ]
Victims of Clawpomb Abuse
36%
 36%  [ 93 ]
The Clawpomb Rehabilitation Project
19%
 19%  [ 51 ]
Whatever Macavity thinks
11%
 11%  [ 29 ]
Total Votes : 258


pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 02:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Which is why we need a rules clarification: what type of journyman use/abuse is allowed? How many is excessive? How much cash can one hoard and refuse to buy new players?

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 03:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Or even better, clean up the rules page. Get rid of the rules that not only aren't essential to a well run online league, but not even the admins care to enforce as written. It sets a bad example for the rules that are needed.

If I'm allowed to disobey rule A about not striving for 11 players, then I guess I can also disobey the "no second account rule", just so long as I don't play vs myself. If I don't play vs myself, I'm not hurting anyone and not disobeying the "spirit" of the rule.

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Timlagor



Joined: Feb 13, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 05:42 Reply with quote Back to top

The rule was brought in Pre-CRP to deal with teams who sat on 3-6 players with a big bank in R. They were hopelessly uncompetitive in any match (unless they found someone similar). Every admin I've seen comment since has said that it's ok to use Journeymen deliberately.

..Gothcon are fairly close to the line but since the don't even have enough cash to reach 12 players with Linos (let alone buying any positionals) I don't think they are there yet but the admins might keep an eye on it.

So if you see someone starting a game without the journeymen they are entitled to then you probably have a complaint under that rule but cash that can't get you to 12 players? -not likely. It could do with a little clarification but it was deliberately vague to give the admins flexibility: if the admins call someone on this one, they will be clearly in breach.

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plasmoid



Joined: Nov 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 08:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Journeyman 'abuse' is a joke.
Everyone seems to be complaining how bashy CRP is.
But if it's that bashy, then surely it's retarded to go into every match with just 11 players.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 08:57 Reply with quote Back to top

no.

the abuse is where people have 4 killers, 7 expendable journeymen who they replace for free every game and keep banking the cash....

it is a way of keeping TV very low
Fela



Joined: Dec 27, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 09:24 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:

the abuse is where people have 4 killers, 7 expendable journeymen who they replace for free every game and keep banking the cash....


So where does the cash come into play?

Even if there WERE a team like that, handicapping yourself with 7 loners is not a winning strategy, not even with 4 'killers'.
gjopie



Joined: Oct 27, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 09:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Fela wrote:
pythrr wrote:

the abuse is where people have 4 killers, 7 expendable journeymen who they replace for free every game and keep banking the cash....


So where does the cash come into play?


Agreed - I think that a big pile of cash may be a by-product of playing like this, but doesn't actively help this kind of team.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 11:05 Reply with quote Back to top

plasmoid wrote:
Journeyman 'abuse' is a joke.
Everyone seems to be complaining how bashy CRP is.
But if it's that bashy, then surely it's retarded to go into every match with just 11 players.


Not if you are matching by TV.

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SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2011 - 13:24 Reply with quote Back to top

plasmoid wrote:
Journeyman 'abuse' is a joke.


Fact.

Journeymen cost as much TV as a regular lineman but are strictly worse.

IIRC the rule disallowing "deliberate team deteriation" was put in place to discourage a wave of 1-man and 5-a-side teams that sprung up a while back. Christer was concerned that these teams a) broke the spirit of ranked and b) caused a number of game crashing bugs. Strictly speaking hiring journeymen satisfies the rule anyway - you have 11 players on the team at the start of each game.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2011 - 01:12 Reply with quote Back to top

ok, so if we eliminate the option to have less journeymen (and therefore mandatorily give 11 players for next match), then we can erase the rule from the rules page since it's outdated.

correct?

with so much else requiring attention, I won't push for the time being.

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Tarabaralla



Joined: Jul 24, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2011 - 12:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Wow! Two teams in the richest list! And my Chaos Pact has only 70k less than Carnis one Razz
Gotta make some room in my chamber for the piles of gold..
plasmoid



Joined: Nov 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2011 - 12:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Fela,
you asked what the point of the Bank is.

Allow me to elaborate a little:
Jervis wanted BB to be about waxing and waning TV, rather than about building into power and just staying there.

Restricted winnings, Spiralling Expenses and the weaker apothecary are all means to that end. So are some of the inducements.

Originally, a hard cap to TV was considered. I.e. go above the cap, and you'll get 0 winnings. In the end, it was replaced with the softer cap called Spiralling Expenses. But the idea was the same: There was supposed to be a cieling to the TV-building.

Leagues are free to adjust Spiralling Expenses, but IIRC we wanted teams to hit a cap around 220TV. By then teams would be at -4 winnings, and would have a very hard time growing any further.

If TV250 chaos teams are currently dominating, then kill-stack isn't the only factor. Certain teams seem able to grow very high, and by design the inducement system gives these teams quite a bit of an advantage. In the MBBL we've just had a chaos team hit TV275, and to me that says that Spiralling Expenses aren't working properly.

And maybe that's because JJ nixed the bank rule. If you can go near the cap with a million in the bank, then it will take forever for Spiralling Expenses to eat up your winnings. If you can only come in with 100K then it's a different story.

Still, you might ask: What's the point of that.
The point is that a team which has moved above 220 would very soon find it's coffers empty. And with no cash all it takes is a death or career-ending-injury to force you back under the cap. Or make you soldier on above the cap in a weakened state.

Cheers
Martin
Tarabaralla



Joined: Jul 24, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 14, 2011 - 13:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Skavens have a new richest team!

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=641544

Seems that stocking gold is the part of the game i'm most competent at ^^
King_Ghidra



Joined: Sep 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2011 - 23:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Strigidae broke the Wood Elf record.

(and we have a proper team - unlike Dragons Razz )
ZachariasTheEverliving



Joined: May 23, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2011 - 03:24 Reply with quote Back to top

You would be surprised how much money the dead dont give away when they die Razz

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=656445

A cool 1.19 mil Very Happy

In the top 25 woohoo!!!!!
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