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Ehlers



Joined: Jun 26, 2006

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 10:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I just copied this from Cyanide forum. What do people think about it?

I updated those rules back in 2008 ... just never posted them:

Creating your own team for Blood Bowl
General Team Rules:
1) No team can have AG 4 and ST 4+ players (unless the ST 4+ players are a Big Guy or Vampire)
2) Total Strength of the 16 highest ST players should not exceed 54
3) Take all players over 100k in price that are not Big Guy stock. Subtract 100k from each of their price and multiple
this amount * the maximum number allowed. Total this amount for the team. This amount cannot exceed
60k. (Example the Chaos Dwarf team has 2 non Big Guy players over 100k. The Bull Centaurs are 130k.
Subtract 100k from each and multiple by the 2 they are allowed and you get 60k so that team is okay.
4) No team should have more than 2 0-16 slots or more than 6 different positions (including the lineman slot)
allowed on the team. (Example the Orc team has 6 different positions).
5) Slots not set at 0-16 are limited to 0-6 maximum allowed.
6) A team cannot have Agile player types and Blocker player types on the same roster.
7) Team Re-roll prices should not be set at less than 50k.
Cool No player's ST + AG should be more than 7.

General Rules for creating players:

1) If the player's initial calculated price is over 100k. Divide the amount of the player's price over 100k by 2 to
determine the player's final calculated price. So a player worth 140k when calculated would have a final
calculated price of 120k. (note if after this is done the player in to an even 10k increment then you need to
apply rule 2 below before you have the true final calculated price).

2) If a player's calculated price is not a round 10k price. Round down 5k amounts over 100k and round up 5k
amounts if under 100k. So a player worth 35k when calculated would have a final price of 40k while a player
whose price was 135k after applying the divide by 2 rule above would have a final calculated price of 130k.

3) Any player's final calculated price may be modified by 10k more or less from the calculated
price to achieve overall team balance. This is pretty important to balancing a roster in the long run.

4) If a player's price is adjusted down from the final calculated price then this amount should be multiplied by the
number of players in that slot. No team should be allowed to have this total amount for all players exceed 40k
total for the team. Players made more expensive than their calculated price should not be factored in.
(Example if the 0-16 slot for a team calculated to 60k and the price was adjusted to 50k then this would be
16*10=160k of discount and would be disallowed.) (Remember that all discounted players needed added.
So if the team has two 0-4 slot players and each player is discounted 10k then this would be 80k of team
discount and the team should not be allowed to be created.)

5) No weapon players should be allowed to be created and placed on teams (other than Stab). So no Secret
Weapon, Bombardier, Chainsaw, Ball & Chain players created new for rosters.

PLAYER TYPES:

1) BASIC PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/3/8 No Skills -- 50,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 30k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really
Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Regeneration
20k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 40k the player paid for Block and
Dodge already)
10k: Horns, Pass, and Thick Skull
5k: Leap and Very Long Legs
-5k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 4: -20k
MA 5: -10k
MA 7: +20k
MA 8: +30k
ST 2: -30k
AG 2: -20k
AV 7: -10k (if the player has NO other skills or stat increases)
AV 7: -20k
AV 9: +10k

2) AGILE PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/4/8 No Skills -- 70,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 60k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really
Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Regeneration
20k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 40k the player paid for Block and
Dodge already)
10k: Horns, Safe Throw, Thick Skull, and Very Long Legs
-10k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 7: +10k
MA 8: +20k
MA 9: +40k
ST 2: -30k
AV 7: -10k (if the player has NO other skills or stat increases)
AV 7: -20k
AV 9: +20k

3) STUNTY PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/2/3/7 Dodge, Stunty -- 30,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 20k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
40k: Block
30k: Regeneration
10k: Right Stuff
0k: Titchy
-10k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 5: -5k
MA 7: +15k
MA 8: +30k
ST 1: -15k
AV 5: -20k
AV 6: -5k

4) BLOCKER PLAYER
This player type starts as:
4/4/2/9 -- 80,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 80k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Block, Claw, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild
Animal, Really Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
10k: Thick Skull, Disturbing Presense
-5k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 3: -20k
MA 5: +10k
MA 6: +30k
ST 5: +40k
AG 1: -20k
AG 3: +20k
AV 7: -30k
AV 8: -20k
AV 10: +30k

5) BIG GUY PLAYER
This player type starts as:
5/5/2/9 (Loner), (Negatrait), (Damage Skill) -- 160,000 gold
A team should only be allowed to have one Big Guy type on it

Allowed:
If the team has any ST 3+ players (other than the Big Guy) then 0-1 allowed
If the team's strongest other players are ST 2 then 0-2 or 0-1 allowed
If the team's strongest other players are ST 1 then 0-6, 0-4, 0-2, or 0-1 allowed
No player of this type should be priced for less than 110k

Skills disallowed to this player type:
Block, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy
Loner: If the team has no other players with ST over 2 than the Big Guy should be allowed to have Loner
removed (if desired) for no increase to his price.
Negatraits (a Big Guy must have one of these):
Bone-head and Wild Animal do not change the price
Really Stupid subtracts 20k from the price
Take Root subtracts 30k from the price
Damage Skill (a Big Guy must have one of these 2 skills):
Mighty Blow does not change the price
Claw adds 10k to the price

All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
10k: Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate
-10k: Always Hungry skill (Note: a Big Guy MUST have Throw Team-Mate to take Always Hungry)
-10k: Decay

The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 2: -90k
MA 3: -50k
MA 4: -20k
MA 6: +30k
ST 6: +50k
AG 1: -20k
AV 8: -10k
AV 10: +20k

6) SPECIAL PLAYER (and other notes)
Vampire 110k 6/4/4/8 Blood Lust, Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration
0-6, 0-4, 0-2, or 0-1 allowed
No modification or extra skills allowed to this player type

Other Notes:
1) The above will allow you to create almost all of the official Blood Bowl teams along with
balancing of teams folks want to create to try something new.
2) Please note the above rules will NOT allow you to create 4 of the official teams namely the Dwarf, Goblin, Chaos Pact
and Lizardman teams. The Goblin and Dwarf teams because they have weapons on
the roster, Chaos Pact because they have too many slots (7) and the Lizardman team because it has 70k of
team discount (10k discount each on the 0-6 Saurus and the 0-1 Kroxigor).
3) If you want to allow teams to add in Vampires (which would be fun) a very easy way to program in the Blood
Lust skill would be to allow them to attack any member of their own team that does not have Regeneration (a
very easy modification that will have the skill work perfectly and allow the Vampire player to be added into
other teams).
4) Note on prices for the Big Guys. The starting price still gets divided by 2 for the amount over 100k when
you do the first price calculation.
Example: So a base Big Guy with MA 6 and Loner, Bone-head, and Mighty Blow would be 160k+30k=190k.
Divide the 90k by 2 = 45k. 190k-45k = 145k. Round down and the final calculated price of the Big Guy would
be 140k.
5) If you to try and have the most balanced teams possible. I strongly recommend not making changes to any
stats (Move, Strength, Agility, Armour) other than the ones I listed for each player type
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 11:17 Reply with quote Back to top

This is Galak and JJ's roster creation guide that they used to create this set of rules.

Spot how many of the rules they set out get broken Confused

But it is a good resource for people that want to create custom rosters Smile


Last edited by Garion on May 25, 2011 - 11:23; edited 1 time in total
Rijssiej



Joined: Jan 04, 2005

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 11:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Looks like these have been created after the teams were created to make as much of them them fit in.
On creating balanced teams it is a fail.
JockMcRowdy



Joined: Jul 07, 2004

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 11:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Animal teams meet all this criteria* and should be considered when implementing any additions to the available rosters


*Honest

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The White Isle League is by far the best Blood Bowl league in the world. FACT!

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zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 11:46 Reply with quote Back to top

JockMcRowdy wrote:
Animal teams meet all this criteria* and should be considered when implementing any additions to the available rosters


*Honest


so do space marine rosters!
freak_in_a_frock



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 11:46 Reply with quote Back to top

As I recall the original document had a '*' next to the title. And at the bottom it had the disclaimer

* Except Space Marine Teams.
arwaker



Joined: May 20, 2011

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 13:49 Reply with quote Back to top

There are some points, that i don't understand. Is there anybody able to explain me these Cost-Changes :

Basic Player : MA 7(=+1) : +20k
Basic Player : MA 8(=+2) : +30k

Agile Player : MA 7(=+1) : +10k
Agile Player : MA 8(=+2) : +20k
Agile Player : MA 9(=+3) : +40k

Block Player : MA 3(=-1) : -20k
Block Player : MA 5(=+1) : +10k
Block Player : MA 6(=+2) : +30k
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 13:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Basic player starts at -
6/3/3/8 No Skills -- 50,000 gold

add the above costs to that^ for the increases to stats.

So a human with ma 7 should cost 70k then 20k for block = 90k a human blitzer

an agile player
6/3/4/8 No Skills -- 70,000 gold

give them one more Ma = 10k add block for 20k =100k which is a High Elf/Dark Elf Blitzer.

You understand?

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zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 14:03 Reply with quote Back to top

i think he meant why the values aren't linear (the second +ma for a blocker is more expensive than the first, for instance)

i think it's because there are some qualitative changes in the performance of a player at some key values. MA7 allows you to reach any point of your field if you are standing in the middle, and to cross from the LoS to the end zone in 2 turns without going for it. Therefore the ma6->ma7 step is more valuable than the ma7->ma8

i guess there are similar reasonings for the other steps

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arwaker



Joined: May 20, 2011

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 14:11 Reply with quote Back to top

zakatan wrote:
i think he meant why the values aren't linear (the second +ma for a blocker is more expensive than the first, for instance)


Yeah, I see.
I understand the incease in usefulness going from MA6 to MA7. But I think this increase doesnt legitimate the costs of this step being double as expensive as the other steps.

And why the hell is the 6->7 step for Agile players NOT more expensive?

Where is the step in effectivness for a Block-Player going from MA5 to MA6 ?


There are so much prices I would value them different.
Every skill (except several) for 20k ?? WTF, Sprint is far less effective as Dodge. It is even far less effective as +1MA, but in most cases more expensive.

This system is crap in my eyes.


Last edited by arwaker on May 25, 2011 - 14:16; edited 1 time in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 14:14 Reply with quote Back to top

There isnt one, because the block player starts with ma 4 so it would be +2 which is 30k increase.

arwaker wrote:


This system is crap in my eyes.


Yup it is a bit, but thats the way this rule set was written. This data was only released after the cyanide added a customised roster option to their game.
arwaker



Joined: May 20, 2011

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

If I would be asked to make something like this, it would look like:

1) BASIC PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/3/8 No Skills -- 50,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 30k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really
Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 10k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Block, Dodge, Guard
20k: Frenzy, Kick, Sure Hands, Side Step, Leader, Mighty Blow, Claw
+10k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 60k the player paid for Block and Dodge already)
+20k: Regeneration (if the player costs in total 80k or more, additional +10k)
-10k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 4: -20k
MA 5: -10k
MA 7: +10k
MA 8: +20k
ST 2: -30k
AG 2: -10k
AV 7: -10k (if the player costs in total 80k or more, additional -10k)
AV 9: +10k
Timlagor



Joined: Feb 13, 2009

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 15:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think these rules are useful to someone who knows the game well. You need to playtest regardless and I think you can get wwhereyou want 'by eye' much more eaisly and accurately.

Might be useful for setting down what other people can do with custome rosters in a league though.

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Ehlers



Joined: Jun 26, 2006

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I dont see why people think they are so bad?

4 teams out of 24 break the rules.
Dwarf... well the Death Roller is just silly. Should never have been made a regular player. Remove the death roller and the roster would fit.
Goblin. Well Galak probably think it would be a good idea to restrict secret weapons to be added to custome rosters. People will go crazy about adding them, so with good reason in my eyes. All other points are still true, except secret weapons if I am not mistaking?
Chaos Pact? Well seems more like all the normal skill access for a regular lineman to that price. More a problem with that it does not cost to have 1 or more skill category access than the 3big guys.
Lizardmen, well cant say anything here. Play tested and tweaked to be competitive.

Also of cause a team need to be play tested and tweaked. But I dont see the problem with having a rough good guide line to making a team. Too many rosters suggested get too powerful general.
If you think the guidelines are that bad, well is it maybe not more the problem with CRP and the price of each skill?
legowarrior



Joined: Sep 17, 2010

Post   Posted: May 25, 2011 - 23:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Oddly enough, but if you where to buy the 11 best players on each team, they'd all roughly fall between 90K and 100K, with the exception of the stunty and Vampire Teams.
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