uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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 Posted:
May 25, 2011 - 23:30 |
 
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One thing I have been wondering is that these rules seem to have the loophole of expensive linos. If the linemen are 100k players and there are enough positionals to start the team, the team will get better with journeymen!
Would for example the following roster be legal:
0-16 Basic Lineman 8338 Dodge G 100k
0-6 Blocker 4419 GS 60k
0-6 Stunty 6237 Block, Dodge A 70k
Rerolls 60k, Apo 50k
Starting roster
6 Blockers 360k
5 Stunty 350k
4 Rerolls 240k
1 Apo 50k
total 1000k
Did I miss something or misunderstood? Is this the way to make Space Marines?  |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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May 25, 2011 - 23:36 |
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of course, space marine journeymen don't have the loner skill |
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Sutherlands
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
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May 25, 2011 - 23:43 |
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Would that roster be legal... well, sure, strictly according to the posted rules. But I would say that common sense would say that's not a balanced lineup. The rules that are posted aren't perfect, but they're not really meant to be, they're guidelines on making a team. Everything has a reason. Move is more expensive on bigger guys, because it's more important for them to get where they need to go than your average lineman. Going to move 9 is more important than move 8, because it gives you a OTT guy with just a +MV stat upgrade (and sprint). VLL is more expensive on an AG4 than on a basic lineman because... well duh. |
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jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
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Need sleep. Will check math in the morning. When we can custom build rosters this is mine.
0-1 TROLLOLOLOL 2/6/1/8 jump up / claw / mb / pile on / wild animal 140k
0-6 CLAWPLOMB 5/3/2/8 jump up/mb/claw/pile on 100k
0-4 Guard-eners 4/4/1/8 guard/sidestep 80 k
0-16 Titchers 8/1/3/7 dodge/ titchy 50k |
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"May Nuffle have mercy on your rolls." - St.Basher |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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May 26, 2011 - 09:26 |
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| arwaker wrote: | If I would be asked to make something like this, it would look like:
1) BASIC PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/3/8 No Skills -- 50,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 30k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really
Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 10k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Block, Dodge, Guard
20k: Frenzy, Kick, Sure Hands, Side Step, Leader, Mighty Blow, Claw
+10k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 60k the player paid for Block and Dodge already)
+20k: Regeneration (if the player costs in total 80k or more, additional +10k)
-10k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 4: -20k
MA 5: -10k
MA 7: +10k
MA 8: +20k
ST 2: -30k
AG 2: -10k
AV 7: -10k (if the player costs in total 80k or more, additional -10k)
AV 9: +10k |
This wont be fair at all towards amazone
Amazone
Linewoman: 70k
Blitzer 100k
Dwarf
Blocker: 80k
Norse
Lineman 70k
Human:
Lineman 50k
Just to compare to a normal human lineman
Your system will nerf Amazone by a lot. They might be a good low TV team, but sucks later on. So you just nerf them more and lower TV where they are going to suck major. I dont know if Dwarf should cost more, but looking at the Black Box win rating they are somehow around the middle.
Norse does not have a good Black box win rating, it is in the button. So your system is not better at all IMO. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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May 26, 2011 - 09:30 |
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I don't think it is any worse though. Just the same really. Equally floored |
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arwaker
Joined: May 20, 2011
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May 26, 2011 - 09:41 |
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In fact, human linemen might deserve a buff, compared to Longbeards and Norse/Amazone Linemen/Women.
However, Norse and Amazone teams have dodge/block in the whole roster, so there could be a reduction. These things are out of the rules, and should be considered separately.
Considering jarvis_pants's roster proposal, there might be also an additional increase (similar to the blodge increase) in costs for combination of Claw, Mighty Blow and Piling on.
And the most important thing is: A sense for realism and balance. |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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May 26, 2011 - 09:50 |
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well arwaker many of the other positional cost wont change or linemen cost wont change for the other teams. I just posted those that spring out.
And if you talk about sense for realism and balance, then why change it in the first place if nearly all teams fit into the current formula? You still need to tweak and change it as you say.
But if you take into consideration of claw, might and po, then you are moving towards the old TS formula by Christer. And I dont think any players should start with that kind of combination at all. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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May 26, 2011 - 09:53 |
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balance is ok, but realism?  |
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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May 27, 2011 - 15:04 |
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There is a lot more to a team them the guide, but I find it is a good starting point.
A team like this would not fit the rules at all though.
Gnomes – Average Linesmen
0-16 Automaton 7/3/2/9 Block, Really Stupid S/GAPM 60K
0-4 Gnomes 6/1/3/8 Dodge, Stunty, Block, Twitchy GAP/S 70K
0-2 H. Automatons 5/5/1/9 Stand Firm, Really Stupid, Tackle, Thick Skull S/GAPM 120K
0-1 Steam Armor 4/6/1/9 Loner, Bone Head, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, S/GAMP 140K |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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May 27, 2011 - 15:15 |
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| legowarrior wrote: | There is a lot more to a team them the guide, but I find it is a good starting point.
A team like this would not fit the rules at all though.
Gnomes – Average Linesmen
0-16 Automaton 7/3/2/9 Block, Really Stupid S/GAPM 60K
0-4 Gnomes 6/1/3/8 Dodge, Stunty, Block, Twitchy GAP/S 70K
0-2 H. Automatons 5/5/1/9 Stand Firm, Really Stupid, Tackle, Thick Skull S/GAPM 120K
0-1 Steam Armor 4/6/1/9 Loner, Bone Head, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, S/GAMP 140K |
And for a good reason maybe? |
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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May 27, 2011 - 15:37 |
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Hey, by those same rules, the Vampires shouldn't exist either.
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legowarrior
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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| Posted:
May 27, 2011 - 15:39 |
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| uuni wrote: | One thing I have been wondering is that these rules seem to have the loophole of expensive linos. If the linemen are 100k players and there are enough positionals to start the team, the team will get better with journeymen!
Would for example the following roster be legal:
0-16 Basic Lineman 8338 Dodge G 100k
0-6 Blocker 4419 GS 60k
0-6 Stunty 6237 Block, Dodge A 70k
Rerolls 60k, Apo 50k
Starting roster
6 Blockers 360k
5 Stunty 350k
4 Rerolls 240k
1 Apo 50k
total 1000k
Did I miss something or misunderstood? Is this the way to make Space Marines? |
Those linesmen would only cost 90k. I'm pretty sure that with the exception of orcs and Chaos Pact, positionals always cost more then linesmen. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 29, 2011 - 18:24 |
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Something that came up with my first use of these rules was how ridiculous one could make a team with these rules.
Two things:
First, Khemri are also not legal by these rules; their strongest 16 players total strength 56.
As Ehlers pointed out below, my second team is not particularly useful. I've removed it due to that. |
Last edited by Nelphine on %b %29, %2011 - %18:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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May 29, 2011 - 18:45 |
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Nelphine was is the guideline for?
When you create a team what do you have in mind when creating it? Power tripping or creating a balanced team?
Also there is no cost on what skill catagory you can pick from or how many players of each type you should be able to take. Another flaw in it
You just min max the guide lines. WOW, most impressive.
The guide lines are not perfect, and?
But with no guide lines at all, people would make more insane rosters than already created by people. You are thinking the view from a players perspective. How can I gain most from X amount points available.
Instead you should think it from a game developers view (not always they do it right, but at least they try). How can all the teams be more or less equal in terms of game play. The developers in BB thought that you would need teams which would be fun teams and not competitive teams like Goblins and Flings. |
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