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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2012 - 22:07 Reply with quote Back to top

JimmyFantastic wrote:
WhatBall wrote:

0-1 Studmandudebrogeymens 3/7/1/12 Bone-head, Really Stupid, Wild Animal, Piling On, Mighty Blow, Claw S/GSPM

Razz


Best player all times!


Surly he should have DP and St10 too lol
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 21:46 Reply with quote Back to top

0-16 Boggarts 6/2/3/6 Stunty, Wrestle, Foul Appearance - A GSP - 50K
0-2 Pranksters 5/1/3/5 Stunty, Titchy, Dodge, Stab, Side Step, Diving Tackle - A GSP - 40K
0-2 Bogles 6/2/3/7 Leap, VLL, Disturbing Presence, Shadowing, Regeneration - A GSP - 90K
0-2 Bogeymen 5/4/1/8 Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Grab, Regeneration - S GAP - 120K
Apothecary: No
Rerolls: 60K

Ok, trying to balance the team out a bit here, while sticking to my original fluff.

Overall I took away mutation access as it didn't really mesh with the theme, and I also keep in mind there is no apoth and only two of four player types has regeneration, so death will be quick and often for these guys with no star player protection.

For the Boggarts, I stayed with ST2, because I see them as quite fierce. With no M access, no regen, and no apoth, I set them at 50K, which I think is fair enough. I am considering slowing them to MA5 as well, so they are less offencive and more defensive.

The Pranksters were not enough of a nuisance, so they gain Diving Tackle too. Made them 40K, but 50K might be more in line, even with their poor stat line.

The Bogles and the Bogeys were way too powerful in the first iteration, so I made them weaker, but still a pain to deal with. For the Bogles I dropped them to ST2, but added Shadowing to stick on other players. They also lose the GS access and only get A(GSP), so the price drops to 90K. I think this change helps the most to balance out the team as there is no ST3 crazy powerful ball handler anymore. The ST2 makes taking them down easier.

The Bogeys remain the most unchanged as I think they were reasonable to begin with, minus the skill access, which has been fixed by giving them S(GAP).

Thoughts?

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Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 22:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Not that it really matters, but typically the rosters are listed Top down cost/availability wise...
e.g.

0-2 Bogeymen 5/4/1/8 Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Grab, Regeneration - S GAP - 120K
0-2 Bogles 6/2/3/7 Leap, VLL, Disturbing Presence, Shadowing, Regeneration - A GSP - 90K
0-2 Pranksters 5/1/3/5 Stunty, Titchy, Dodge, Stab, Side Step, Diving Tackle - A GSP - 40K
0-16 Boggarts 6/2/3/6 Stunty, Wrestle, Foul Appearance - A GSP - 50K
Apothecary: No
Rerolls: 60K

Now for some thoughts...

Boggarts: Although you'll hear some complaining about Wrestle being OP on them I think they are fine as written. (Even with no Apo, FA/Wrestle will help keep them alive).

Pranksters: (I really would like to find a B name for them to complete the theme!) First I think the team would actually be just fine without them (and that would solve the name issue as well Wink ), but I can see you really like them. What concerns me about them is with Dodge, SS, and DT combined with A access, what skills are they going to take as they progress? Sprint? Sure feet? Jump up? There really aren't that many good choices. I'd suggest backing off and letting them develop into "more" annoying players. What about:

0-2 Pranksters 5/1/3/5 Dodge, Foul Appearance, Stab, Stunty, Titchy - A GSP - 40K

This keeps with the team's Foul Appearance (Really Scary) theme, leaves them 2 good skill choices (SS, and DT), and helps keep their little AV 5 butts alive (somewhat).

Bogles:
I think they're better at St 2 if they're able to carry the ball (which I'm not sure bouncing scarecrows should). This is also the position where I think G access belongs making them your Blitzers because of their MA. I don't really get Shadowing though. If you're looking to add something (and stick with their theme) what about:

0-2 Bogles 6/2/3/7 Foul Appearance, Jump Up, Leap, Regeneration, Very Long Legs - G ASP - 100K

Bogeymen:
The only thing I see wrong with them is 120K is probably a bit too high. Normally those kinds of costs are more for St 5 BGs (unless major skills are involved). Rather than lower the cost though, I'm inclined to go the other way and make him a full-on Big Guy, but also take him to 0-1 (similar to the Stig Lord):

0-1 Bogeyman 5/5/1/9 Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Grab, Loner, Regeneration - SM GAP - 120K

Mutation access allows him to become a really bizarre and scary bogeyman! And the lack of a traditional BG Negatrait is balanced by 0-1 and AG 1.

This would leave the roster looking:
0-1 Bogeyman 5/5/1/9 Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Grab, Loner, Regeneration - SM GAP - 120K
0-2 Bogles 6/2/3/7 Foul Appearance, Jump Up, Leap, Regeneration, Very Long Legs - G ASP - 100K
0-2 Pranksters 5/1/3/5 Dodge, Foul Appearance, Stab, Stunty, Titchy - A GSP - 40K
0-16 Boggarts 6/2/3/6 Stunty, Wrestle, Foul Appearance - A GSP - 50K
Apothecary: No
Rerolls: 60K

**edit**
(Meant to have Foul Appearance on Bogles instead of Disturbing Presence)


Last edited by Craftnburn on Feb 21, 2012 - 23:33; edited 3 times in total
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 22:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the changes you suggest on first glance CnB, thanks. Will think on them for a bit, but like the direction.

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SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 23:21 Reply with quote Back to top

I like them too good thinking!

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Olesh



Joined: Jun 24, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 23:39 Reply with quote Back to top

To WhatBall & CraftnBurn:

You guys are making some interesting changes; keep it up!

The incoming criticism is fairly mild this time, don't worry. I actually liked the 0-2 Bogeymans with ST4 better than the 0-1 ST5 without a negatrait. I think if you make that jump (to ST 5), you really need the negatrait to compensate for it. After all, a regular ST2 stunty needs a whopping four assists or a 4+ dauntless roll to get a 2DB vs a ST5 guy.

Bogles are turning out to be a pretty unusual blitzer - I don't agree with them starting with quite so many skills, especially since they have G access, but it works as compensation for having only a single big guy.

Pranksters are still the big issue in my book; 40k for 2+ dodges anywhere, 100% safe armor rolls against any player, and a 1/6 chance to ignore any blocks thrown at them is just too cheap for their value. I'd bump them to 60k and drop Titchy. (referring to Craftnburn's suggestion). I do agree with him (although perhaps for different reasons) that starting with DT/SS would leave them with very little room to grow.

Keep at it!
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 23:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, thanks to Thesaurus.com I suggest "Pranksters" be renamed Bogies!
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 23:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Olesh wrote:
a regular ST2 stunty needs a whopping four assists or a 4+ dauntless roll to get a 2DB vs a ST5 guy.
True, but with only the single Bogeyman on the pitch those 4 assists will be much easier to arrange. Also, as a single he is much less able to clog up areas of the field requiring him to be more mobile (and therefore less Bone-headed/Really Stupid/Wild Animal) than other BGs who can rely on a partner to cover half the field.

Olesh wrote:
Pranksters are still the big issue in my book
I somewhat agree. I was very tempted to put them at 50K in the above post for some of the same reasons you mention (although the consequences of that dodging in and stab can be brutal on St1 Av5 even with FA). I also tend to like tiered pricing where positionals cost more than lineman, but 60K seems like it might be too much for a player you'll likely be replacing very often.

So, my updated suggestion:
0-1 Bogeyman 5/5/1/9 Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Grab, Loner, Regeneration - SM GAP - 120K
0-2 Bogle 6/2/3/7 Foul Appearance, Jump Up, Leap, Regeneration, Very Long Legs - G ASP - 100K
0-2 Bogie 5/1/3/5 Dodge, Foul Appearance, Stab, Stunty, Titchy - A GSP - 50K
0-16 Boggart 6/2/3/6 Stunty, Wrestle, Foul Appearance - A GSP - 50K
Apothecary: No
Rerolls: 60K

(And if Bogle and Bogie are too similar Boggle is an alternate spelling I believe)
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 04:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for all the input. I like Bogie, and it is not the same as a Bogle, which is a ghost like spirit, usually manifested as a scarecrow, which I think fits their blitzer with G access role well. The Bogie as a mean little anti-fairy works perfectly. I think Boggle reminds me too much of the game to use that spelling.

At first I was reluctant on the Bogeyman being a single position, but I think it works better, especially without the negatrait. I see these as a well organized group of evil spirits out to cause harm and mischief for their own amusement, not just mindless aggressors.

I would be happy to try that roster as presented and appreciate all the help and input on this team. I'll try and beef up the fluff a bit more too.

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Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 04:44 Reply with quote Back to top

WhatBall wrote:
I like Bogie, and it is not the same as a Bogle
I was actually was referring to the text itself being too similar. The lowercase i often hard to distinguish from the lowercase l, depending on the font.
Kalamona



Joined: Apr 21, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 06:40 Reply with quote Back to top

sorry, but this team is way too powerful. just think about it. u have a lineman like:

0-16 Boggarts 6/2/3/6 Wrestle, Foul Appearance, Stunty

as a new team lineman actually get hurt easier then other stunties. but if they reach 6 spp they start to be immortal. they pick up dodge and can only be take down by a pow (if the FA does not stop the block) while they block a lot safer coz they can ignore both down on their rolls. and with wrestle they would take down easily the best players and even the big guys of the opp and need only 1-2 dp to finish the job. and u have 16 of them.

0-2 Pranksters 5/1/3/5 Dodge, Side Step, Stunty, Titchy, Stab, Regeneration

with starting ss he is a killing machine. in new teams he can only be taken down by a pow and u need to choose both down result, coz he will stab u every single turn as a push back means nothing to him.

and 4 stronger player (str 3 and 4) makes sure that this team is no way to be out bashed but the same 4 player makes sure that even passing did not work against them.

sorry if i seemed to be negative, but it feels like the team was just put together with some skills and wasnt tested.
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 07:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Kalamona wrote:
but if they reach 6 spp they start to be immortal.
LOL! Hyperbole thy name is Kalamona Wink

Kalamona wrote:
they pick up dodge and can only be take down by a pow (if the FA does not stop the block)
Pow's happen...a lot (1 in 6 on each block die if I recall and 2d blocks aren't exactly uncommon). And when they do, these guys are Av6 and No Apo or Regen!

Kalamona wrote:
while they block a lot safer coz they can ignore both down on their rolls.
Well they don't exactly ignore them, they give up their TZ and 3 MA next turn for it.

Kalamona wrote:
and u have 16 of them.
Going for an All Boggart team? I think you'll get slaughtered, but you're welcome to try. Wink

Kalamona wrote:
with starting ss he is a killing machine.
lol again!

Kalamona wrote:
in new teams he can only be taken down by a pow
Which shouldn't be that hard to pull off with an almost certain 2 dice on every block due to his St 1.

Kalamona wrote:
and u need to choose both down result, coz he will stab u every single turn as a push back means nothing to him.
And if that stab fails.. 2+dice right in the face against your AV5 (and still no Apo)!

Kalamona wrote:
and 4 stronger player (str 3 and 4)
I see you haven't read the whole thread. (WhatBall, remember to keep the first page updated with any changes)

Kalamona wrote:
and wasnt tested.
AFAIK We currently have no way (aside from TT) to test these rosters since you can't do custom rosters in the new client.
Kalamona



Joined: Apr 21, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:

Kalamona wrote:
with starting ss he is a killing machine.
lol again!


instead of lol-ing u should start thinking for a change. to think about things like why night runners ag was taken down to 2 besides their strength to 1. they were considered way too powerful against av6 stunty players. they stand next to a stunty and with ss he can not get rid of him. or think about the the first skill u pick for them... jump up, so if he is even knocked down he could most likely block next turn. and of course no secret weapon anymore so they stay in field all game.

but to make sure i do not interfere with a team creation i will not make any more comments.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:12 Reply with quote Back to top

as a note to kalamona - side step was actually already suggested to be taken away from the prankster.

as a further comment: I still think wrestle with A access is too strong; what about dropping their native AV to 5 as a compromise? that way they'll die like crazy, unless their skills save them, which seems to be part of the theme of the team.
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 14:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Kalamona wrote:
instead of lol-ing u should start thinking for a change. to think about things like why night runners ag was taken down to 2 besides their strength to 1. they were considered way too powerful against av6 stunty players. they stand next to a stunty and with ss he can not get rid of him. or think about the the first skill u pick for them... jump up, so if he is even knocked down he could most likely block next turn. and of course no secret weapon anymore so they stay in field all game.
Kalamona, perhaps you should think about a few things as well. Like:
This player is already 0-2, St 1 (Two of the Night Runner nerfs) and Av 5 to boot!
Stab<Poison Dagger
Using the term "killing machine" is lol-worthy hyperbole.


Nelphine wrote:
I still think wrestle with A access is too strong; what about dropping their native AV to 5 as a compromise? that way they'll die like crazy, unless their skills save them, which seems to be part of the theme of the team.
Av 5 (nearly)team wide would make the team virtually unplayable. It's not about even about the expense of replacing so many players after each game, but about being able to field a team after the first half!
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