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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 15:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Please check this page:
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=createteam&op=race&division=1

After you choose a division, then you can choose a race from a new menu. If you click on a team, for example on Amazons, then it will list the following attributes:
- Phisique: 2
- Finesse: 4
- Simplicity: 5

Lets get these values right so that it gives a proper indication to new coaches!

To start the discussion, my opinion on amazons is that they play the bashing game. So the 1st attribute is too low to me.

What is your view?

---------Supplemental info---------
There are 24 teams, so each grade will have 4 teams in each grade. Top 4 teams in each category should get 6, next 4 teams 5, etc, worst 4 teams must get grade 1.


Last edited by bghandras on Aug 19, 2012 - 16:03; edited 3 times in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 15:50 Reply with quote Back to top

badhing?

they should be 6 for simplicity though, and 7 out of 6 for lame Wink
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 15:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Corrected, it is bashing, and was a typo only.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top

ah sorry,
Amazons -

Physique 3
Finesses 3
simplicity 6

Though to be honest I find these values strange.

I think think the descriptions are more important for telling you their style. As Physique is a combination of Strength and Av, zons are poor in both those areas but they have dodge and blodge everywhere which means you can't knock them over unless you are dwarves or CDs early on.

Chaos
Physique 4
Finesse 3
Simplicity 3

Chaos Dwarf
Physique 5
Finesse 2
Simplicity 3

Chaos Pact
Chaos
Physique 4
Finesse 3
Simplicity 3

Dark Elf
Physique 3
Finesse 5
Simplicity 5

Dwarf
Physique 5
Finesse 2
Simplicity 5

Elf
Physique 3
Finesse 5
Simplicity 4

Goblin
Physique 2
Finesse 3
Simplicity 2

Halfling
Physique 1
Finesse 2
Simplicity 1

High Elf
Physique 3
Finesse 5
Simplicity 3

Humans
Physique 3
Finesse 3
Simplicity 4

Khemri
Physique 5
Finesse 1
Simplicity 3

Lizardmen
Physique 5
Finesse 3
Simplicity 3

Necromantic
Physique 4
Finesse 4
Simplicity 3

Norse
Physique 4
Finesse 3
Simplicity 3

Nurgle
Physique 4
Finesse 3
Simplicity 2

Ogre
Physique 2
Finesse 1
Simplicity 1

Orc
Physique 6
Finesse 3
Simplicity 6

Skaven
Physique 2
Finesse 6
Simplicity 2

Slann
Physique 3
Finesse 4
Simplicity 2

Undead
Physique 5
Finesse 3
Simplicity 6

Underworld
Physique 3
Finesse 3
Simplicity 2

Vampire
Physique 4
Finesse 4
Simplicity 1

Wood Elf
Physique 3
Finesse 5
Simplicity 4


Last edited by Garion on Aug 19, 2012 - 16:39; edited 1 time in total
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 16:29 Reply with quote Back to top

The ratings were decided upon via about 8 of us in chat at the time (including Christer obviously); there were several that many of us thought were debatable, but (at worst) only by 1 group.

Further, the ratings are based on how they compare in that category with other teams, as well as compared to their other options (so zons are a 2 in bash because there are 16 teams that are probably better at or more restricted than them to bash. Similarly there are 12 teams that are worse than them at finesse even though they all have MA 6.)

So that you have the current standings here (and don't need to look them all up each time):

Bashing
6. Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Chaos Pact, Nurgle
5. Dwarf, Orc, Undead, Necromantic
4. Khemri, Human, Lizardmen, Norse
3. High Elf, Dark Elf, Skaven, Ogre
2. Underworld, Vampire, Amazon, Goblin
1. Pro Elf, Wood Elf, Halfling, Slann

Agility
6: High Elf, Wood Elf, Pro Elf, Skaven
5: Dark Elf, Necromantic, Human, Slann
4: Underworld, Lizardmen, Amazon, Vampire
3: Chaos Pact, Orc, Undead, Norse
2: Chaos, Goblin, Halfling, Nurgle
1: Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Khemri, Ogre


Last edited by Nelphine on Aug 19, 2012 - 17:19; edited 1 time in total
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 16:48 Reply with quote Back to top

It's a subjective thing. You could have a 40 page thread, no-one would ever agree! What there is is fine. Although, obviously Amazons should be simplicity 67, a bowl of peanuts could get a result with them. Wink
Overhamsteren



Joined: May 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I would put Khemri and probably also lizardmen as better bashers than Undead and Necromantic.

Underworld and amazons better bashers than skaven and (high elfs or ogres)

Either halflings or slann should be better basher than vampires.

There are Humans in both 5 and 4 in the agility list.

Vampires should be in the top of agility.

Would actually put skaven below all the elfs and vampires.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 16:52 Reply with quote Back to top

May we change "Physique" rate into "Bash" rate?
I think it's less misleading for new coaches, and everywhere teams are discussed, they are split in bash, finesse and hybrid, not physique, finesse and hybrid.
Physique doesn't sound right to me.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 17:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Humans were supposed to be 5, Underworld was 4, my bad on a quick list; Vampires are NOT top of finesse because they lack any significant speed (which is a key part of finesse, and why skaven beat out dark elves), and their agility players are reliant on agi 3 av 7 players to perform miracles. Also: Ever seen 4 mighty blow tackle piling on vampires? Pretty darn bashy, certainly heavier than slann or halflings, even if it's not the 'usual' route for Vampires.

Note of course, this IS all subjective, but it's an interesting subjective.
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 17:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Chaos should be a 4 for bashing. They are really really bad at it until they get amazing at it.
Put Dwarfs up to 6 and lizards up to 5.

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uuni



Joined: Mar 12, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 18:03 Reply with quote Back to top

In an earlier post times ago I presented a spreadsheet graph I made about races and their agileness/bashiness. I still think it's a pretty graph:
Image
The more agile the race is, the higher it stands; the more bashier a race is the more right it stands. Of course, the numbers can be fudged somewhat if liked. Those points were calculated from starting skills and available accesses and use the "best possible" combinations.

As has already been said, opinions in the matter may differ of course.
Alf115



Joined: Aug 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

lovely graph
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 18:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Bashing
My subjective opinion ob physique (finesse comes later):

6. Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Chaos Pact, Nurgle
5. Dwarf, Orc, Undead, Khemri
4. Necromantic, Human, Lizardmen, Norse
3. Ogre, Dark Elf, Skaven, Amazon
2. Underworld, Vampire, High Elf, Goblin
1. Pro Elf, Wood Elf, Halfling, Slann

I considered also stuff like block/dodge/stunty. Skills that help defend/bash or makes you vulnerable.

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"This is turning into the best thing on FUMBBL" - Seventyone
"THIS LEAGUE IS AWESOME!!!!" - Kummo
"Last league i would leave." - SpecialOne
Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 18:39
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Why?...
blader4411



Joined: Oct 18, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2012 - 19:01 Reply with quote Back to top

We could debate this for a million years and never agree on anything. The current table is just a rough comparison drafted by a group of IRC coaches (under Christer's supervision).
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