Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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 Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 20:00 |
 
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As in; potentially even worth selecting on something rather than just exploiting if the player starts with it?  |
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Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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May 14, 2013 - 20:11 |
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Trolling aside, I don't really care what Galak says. What's important is what his team wrote in this LRB/CRP. If what's written is different from what they wanted, they are the one to blame. |
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Last edited by Panda_ on %b %14, %2013 - %20:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 14, 2013 - 20:12 |
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He's saying you can make a pass to a square; and if you accurately do that, then the pass is an accurate one, and if a diving catch player attempts to catch it, he gets the +1 for an accurate pass. (He still does not get the +1 for diving catch, since it was not targetted to his square, despite andr_e's little addendum, although I'm not sure if Galak makes it clear as to why that is.)
In Matt's case this means it would have been a 2+ to catch (whereas if it was accurately thrown to the DC player, it would have been 1+).
The rules on throwing do support this, as they say 'If the final modified score equals or beats the required roll, the pass is accurate and lands in the target square' which shows a pass is accurate (or not) even if it is thrown to a square, not a player, which is what Galak clarifies above. |
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Johnny_KTOU
Joined: Aug 11, 2008
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May 14, 2013 - 20:20 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | He's saying you can make a pass to a square; and if you accurately do that, then the pass is an accurate one, and if a diving catch player attempts to catch it, he gets the +1 for an accurate pass. (He still does not get the +1 for diving catch, since it was not targetted to his square, despite andr_e's little addendum, although I'm not sure if Galak makes it clear as to why that is.)
In Matt's case this means it would have been a 2+ to catch (whereas if it was accurately thrown to the DC player, it would have been 1+).
The rules on throwing do support this, as they say 'If the final modified score equals or beats the required roll, the pass is accurate and lands in the target square' which shows a pass is accurate (or not) even if it is thrown to a square, not a player, which is what Galak clarifies above. |
Seconded. Have a look at the "Throwing" page in the rulebook. If the pass is accurate, you get +1, it doesn't matter if you're in the target square or not. So catching with an AG4 is 2+.
He wouldn't get the extra +1 from the Diving Catch rule though, he just get the +1 from the accurate pass. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 20:25 |
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| andr_e wrote: | | In addition, the player can attempt to catch any pass, kick off or crowd throw-in, but not bouncing ball, that would land in an empty square in one of his tackle zones as if it had landed in his own square without leaving his current square. |
The first part you linked is very straight forward. +1 to catch a accuarate pass targeted at the catcher.
This second part though is pitiful in the way it was written.
It is a fluffy way of saying that a ball that lands next to the catcher with DC is not moved to the square the ball is in BUT rather the ball is moved to the catcher just like it was thrown to him.
Now it is a stretch to say that a ball which lands in a adjacent square is a accurate throw (to the catcher) regardless of the intention of the passer. Because the first part states very clearly the +1 only applies to a pass intended for the catcher in his own square.
Thus no matter how you look at the second part of the skill description does it ever say you get a +1 to catch the ball? It simply states that the catcher does not actully leave his square but the ball is moved onto the square with the catcher. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 20:39 |
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| Johnny_KTOU wrote: | | He wouldn't get the extra +1 from the Diving Catch rule though, he just get the +1 from the accurate pass. |
Really?
DC gets +1 for accurate pass to the catcher
Pass rules state you get a +1 for accurate pass to catcher.
Thus a DC player gets a +2 for a accurate pass to him, meaning pass to his square.
Thus a ball accurate or not that lands in an adjacent square of a catcher is not considered a accurate pass to the catcher in any sense. Because it was never an actual accurate pass to the catcher in his own square.
Thus the hang up is the badly written second part of the DC rules which bends like a pretzel to say that the catcher is not moved but the ball is moved onto the square with the catcher. But the pass was never accurate in either scenario because it was never thrown to the actual catcher in his own square. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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May 14, 2013 - 20:49 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Pass rules state you get a +1 for accurate pass to catcher. |
No. The passing rules state you get +1 for accurate pass to the target square. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 20:55 |
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Im not sure what the arguement is here, matt he says the client handles this correctly -
| GalakStarscraper wrote: | | Buggrit wrote: | | Although you wouldn't recieve the +1 from the Diving Catch skill you'd surely still get the ordinary +1 for the pass being accurate?! |
This is correct.
Tom |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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May 14, 2013 - 20:57 |
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| xnoelx wrote: | | PainState wrote: | | Pass rules state you get a +1 for accurate pass to catcher. |
No. The passing rules state you get +1 for accurate pass to the target square. |
OK...but those rules are in the basic section of the rule book and does not deal with skills. It is implied in the basic rules that any pass to the target square would receive a +1 to catch on a accurate pass because it is assumed that the target square has a person in said square to catch said accurate pass.
Do I need to bring some salt for this pretzel we are making? |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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May 14, 2013 - 21:00 |
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| PainState wrote: | | xnoelx wrote: | | PainState wrote: | | Pass rules state you get a +1 for accurate pass to catcher. |
No. The passing rules state you get +1 for accurate pass to the target square. |
OK...but those rules are in the basic section of the rule book and does not deal with skills. It is implied in the basic rules that any pass to the target square would receive a +1 to catch on a accurate pass because it is assumed that the target square has a person in said square to catch said accurate pass.
Do I need to bring some salt for this pretzel we are making? |
No. The rules, despite being in the basic section, specifically state you can pass to an empty square. Whether a pass is accurate or not is entirely separate to whether there is a player in the target square or not. |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 21:14 |
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| xnoelx wrote: | | The passing rules state you get +1 for accurate pass to the target square. |
Probably elaborated somewhere above but it states that a pass to a square can be accurate and under the +1 bonus to catch an accurate pass it doesn't say anything about the ball being targeted at the player or not. So yeah basically the same thing.
Makes sense too I guess, an inaccurate pass comes as a surprise and is harder to catch than an accurate pass placed neatly beside the diving catcher in a way they've probably practised beforehand.  |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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May 14, 2013 - 21:15 |
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I hate it when websites won't let you view without logging in.
Right, so there's 2 arguments. One is that you should get a +1 from diving catch (which you don't, because it has to be targeted to your square). The other argument is that you're catching a ball as if it landed in your square. That means that you're catching an accurate pass, meaning you get the +1. That is confirmed by Galak in that TFF post.
Oops, missed page 2 before posting this.
I think Matt is on to something. I think Galak confirmed it, and a bunch of rules lawyers seem to agree. File a bug report with links to the argumentation, and let's get it fixed (go slann!). |
Last edited by the_Sage on %b %14, %2013 - %21:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 21:17 |
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It wouldn't even have to say 'as if it had landed in his own square' to claim the accurate bonus. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 21:21 |
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Yup, submit a bug report. For me, it seems clear that in this specific case, the catch should have been caught. The only part of the rule that seems debatable is whether a player with Diving Catch gets +1 or +2 for an accurate pass targeted to the square he's in. And I'd lean towards +2 for that, but that rule really is badly written. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
May 14, 2013 - 21:23 |
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Hmmmmm. I'm still not convinced that's what Galak has said there. It doesn't feel right either...
Perhaps it would be helpful if that thread was resurrected with a specific diagram asking what the roll is. It seems to me neither the rule of the game or Galak's response as quoted is giving us a clear answer at all. |
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Gnomes are trash
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