ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Aug 29, 2013 - 23:49 |
 
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I'm just starting this thread because I've seen some new players playing goblins, or ogres, or whatever. And I know part of Blood Bowl is trial and error, being able to give things a shot and make them work out for you, and so on. But part of me is thinking, "oh no! These guys are going to give Blood Bowl a shot, get frustrated by losing a lot, and never come back!"
Which leads to the question: if you had a friend who was just starting out Blood Bowl, and he was playing in a league (like FUMBBL etc.) where a majority of the players knew what they were doing, what team(s) would you try to steer him toward?
My first thought is orcs. Orcs get a bad rap, but they're relatively well-rounded, have a decent number of skills starting out, and are hard to just overwhelm outright. And even if they do lose, they're durable enough that they'll probably be ready to fight another day.
Beyond that, though...?
I want to say some kind of elf. Dark elves are an option, but I could see new players getting sucked into the confusion with all the different player types. And I've always struggled to master DEs... Maybe wood elves? They're likely to get shredded in the hands of an amateur, but they're also likely to give that amateur a pretty good chance to win until that time. Wardancers erase a lot of mistakes...
Of course, you could also go with the "what race is easiest at TV1000?" -- and come out with Amazons. Which is not the worst answer, but Amazons scale pretty badly, and if the opponent DOES hit enough times to overcome the dodging, you could end up with a real bloodbath. Norse are a slightly more moderate version of the same answer...
I mean, I don't know. I haven't been new for years. What do you think? |
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Dalfort
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:01 |
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my experience with Norse is very bloody, VERY! they squish too easily and the frenzy can lead even experienced players awry...
Dwarf are tough but can leave you out of position so easily; Khemri, again tough but cant pick a ball consistently and add in that they have a Throw-ra which could convince a naive noob into thinking they can play a passing game...
I like Necro but how much of that is based on the number of games I have played (however badly!) I dont know. I havent played much with Undead to know if they are comparable.
Personally, it doesnt matter what race a new player chooses as much as who he chooses to play against. If they make a new Box team and throw them into lions den then they could quite conceivably quickly lose hope in the game, whereas if they created a new L team and joined 145 Club where newer players are encouraged and told of some of the pitfalls then I can see them soaring to a long and enjoyable BB career.
Just my thoughts. I will read this with interest. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:04 |
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Elves of any sort are definitely not the right choice for a new player. They're not as bad as they were under 4, however bad luck and your games gone, so very frustrating.
Zons can be a good team to learn with. Dodge is an aggressive skill, and gives you the ability to get stuck in. Just playing zons at low TV though, isn't really the answer. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:06 |
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Orcs are the best for new players. |
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Bullroarer4
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:12 |
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I agree. Though after a season or two, one should experiment with other top teams. Most of the top teams can teach one something about an aspect of the great game. |
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Bullroarer4
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:14 |
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Opponents matter as much. If the goal is to just have fun, play what you like with others at your skill level. If you wish to learn, play the best coaches you can find. |
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B_SIDE
Joined: Apr 24, 2008
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:14 |
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1 Orcs
2 Humans
3 Undead
4 High Elves |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:21 |
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I do wonder sometimes when I see yet another newcomer play with goblins with nothing but losses, I guess the thought is: "I'm gonna lose anyway so might as well have some fun"
Orcs are definitely a good bet.
Elfs need a little guidance, like taking the solid builds/skills and understanding 2+ dodges vs 2d blocks. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 30, 2013 - 00:28 |
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orcs and undead. Both stupidly good at low TV. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:05 |
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| ahalfling wrote: | ...the question: if you had a friend who was just starting out Blood Bowl, and he was playing in a league (like FUMBBL etc.) where a majority of the players knew what they were doing, what team(s) would you try to steer him toward?
... What do you think? |
Whatever is fun for that friend.
There is no "easy win" team, so there is no easy "take this team and you won't get frustrated" team. Each team has to be learned before you can win, and the game as a whole has to be learned before you can win regularly.
So a newbie's best bet is to "have fun" while losing, with a few wins every now and then to tease the newbie into sticking around.
I started with DElfs in LRB 4 - of all the teams, they made the most sense to me, they were the most forgiving to my own personal newbie mistakes, and when they did elf-ball for the win gave me the most satisfaction, far more than a bashy-'em-up team would with the same win.
But everyone will be diff, and everyone's goals will be diff.
Do they want to learn the game asap? Are they willing to lose and take their lumps while learning the basics and becoming a better coach? Do they want to master one team asap or play a spectrum for a change each time? Do they want a team that has a lot of bells and whistles and requires understanding of many of the "second tier" rules? Do they want to learn caging (as a sole/primary team tactic)? Do they want chaos and long passes and risky escapes? Do they want blood and RIP's and lots of cas, regardless which team gets pounded? Who are "they", anyway? What is "fun" and "not frustrating" for them?
Point in fact, what "they" want may not be what they need... and that's a problem in and of itself.
:/
First thing (and acknowledging the many variables above), I would suggest that they avoid:
o AV 7 (or less!). Studies show that massive casualties can cause severe depression in newbies (and vets alike!).
o "extreme" teams - fast Lizards/Skaven, slow Dwarfs/Khemri, etc etc. Too specialized/demanding for the average newbie to learn the basics.
o "overly complex" or quirky teams like Nurgle, Slann, Ogres or Vamps, that have unusual rules and tactics to consider. (This might include anything w/ Frenzy - ymmv. Frenzy can easily be a trap for those unfamiliar with it, and imo is best added "later".)
That said, to start, I'd recommend one or the other of...
o Humans might be the simplest for the confused newb - open options. (I ran a few human games early just to learn the rules.) 4 players Block while one player uses Sure Hands to pick up the ball and Pass to deliver it to a player w/ Catch - easy. (Hold off on the Ogre.)
o Orcs are the "other" basic team from back when the game was first introduced - trade offs between some +Str for leverage balanced against some -Ag and -MA, with most of the same early skills that Humans have. Provides more diversity within the same team, which can be good (or bad, depending).
o (& possibly Delfs, w/ no Witches. 4 faster Blockers who can do ~some~ natural dodging, and Ag 4 makes up for a lot of missing ballhandling skills, and the AV 8 is a nice buffer. DElfs will win almost by accident about every 5th-6th game with any sort of intelligence behind the coaching, but it's dangerous for the "learning process" to have all that Ag 4 as a cushion...)
Imo anything else risks starting to get into special tactics and considerations (or just too much to think about early) that detract from the "basics" of learning the game.
(Edit - "Undead"?... yeah, maybe. I worry that the majority of the team is far too slow and any dodging is too unreliable, but that in and of itself can be a good teacher. It would also teach the newbie to position and protect their ball handlers. Plus, no Apo might force a "zen" sort of acceptance on the coach, where later teams with an apo will appear to be a blessing. Maybe...) |
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gamelsetlmatch
Joined: Mar 05, 2013
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:21 |
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Skaven!
They at least have some 4ag players, a sure hands thrower, two decent blitzers, cheap linos, a sense of team management with the av7 players dying off, as well as a pretty solid big guy.
These things give them a decent taste of most of the diversity they can use as well as things they will face. |
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“In our play we reveal what kind of people we are.” |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:26 |
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Chaos, because um... I like chaos? Fluff matters too, y'know. I guess they're pretty simple too, no pesky skills to have to learn... |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Aug 30, 2013 - 01:35 |
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vndead are a good starter team as well. Its very obviovs what the role of all the players shovld be and how to play the team. Plvs regen gives good dvrability. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:04 |
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| B_SIDE wrote: | 1 Orcs
2 Humans
3 Undead
4 High Elves |
this |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Aug 30, 2013 - 02:06 |
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playing undead teaches positioning |
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