keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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Jan 19, 2014 - 23:25 |
 
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Here are the real Journeyman Lines! |
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The Drunker I get, the more I spill
"Keggie is the guy with the bleach blond hair that gives answers nobody else would think of."
Jeffro |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 20, 2014 - 00:33 |
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Wow. K, total misread. Not gonna feed it, though. Just gonna stop asking people to throw other people's circumstances in their faces without walking a mile in their shoes. Some folks don't have money to spend on games, so instead of taking food out of their mouths they try to make the site better by fueling productive conversations, participating in leagues and furthering league-fluff, helping noobs along, and making interesting teams that people want to play against, like rosters full of former Journeymen.
But never mind that, Iust wanted to be clear on 2 things, and right now I'm batting .500:
1) Is my existing Journeyman practice kosher? Woodstock says yes, HM says tangential rant. Check.
2) How do y'all use Journeymen? |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 20, 2014 - 00:57 |
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You've totally missed my points. I didn't mention financial donations at all. I think most could donate more (financially) to the site than they do, but they don't and that's human nature, me included.
Nearly everyone however could donate to the site, by making it a better place. Improving wikis, improving the experience for newcomers, creating fluff, creating artwork, coming up with site ideas. However it's always the same old faces doing this stuff.
However this STILL wasn't my point. My point was how the player base are sabotaging the gaming experience/diminishing the player base and taking to the forums to complain about something the site isn't doing to make their totally free experience better.
In most of these cases it's totally unnecessary. If you feel a rule has been broke, report it, don't whine about it. If you feel something can be improved, improve it, don't go to the forums and whine about it.
My point with your case, is that I don't think you're trying to be creative at all. Yes the rule as it stands, unfortunately curbs creativity. I feel you are trying to find a definitive white line in the sand, where you can tread to make your teams even more competitive, not taking into account what the mechanic in the game was meant to do.
Let's take a step back. Why were Journey Men added to the game? They were added to help out beaten up team, they do this greatly. They weren't added to help save cash or circumnavigate spiralling expenses. They weren't added to build up a gold chest, so that you can get your name on a hall of shame forum topic for saving 23 million gold pieces in the lamest possible way. They weren't added, because you feel your team works best with 5 very skilled players and 6 players who's job is to stand there for 16 turns. They weren't added so you can keep a little kitty to replace your wardancers every other game and maintain an effective status quo at 1450 TV.
Look at the bigger picture, what effect does this have on outsiders getting into the game (if these players aren't the type who just care about mechanics, which is pretty much what we're now left with). The effect is pretty similar to using urine instead of milk in your coffee......not very appetising.
The bottom line is, I cleared this issue up with you when I was an admin. You're just pushing for answers again, now you see the doors been left slightly ajar.
I'm sure the answers the same as usual.
Don't be a douche, do the right thing, this is your site, as much as the admins, look after it. And if you don't, you will be told. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Jan 20, 2014 - 01:00 |
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I prefer not having J-men at all. But on certain teams, buying a handful of rookies just to have them die the next game feels, odd, especially since the positional players die just as fast. I could buy 3 linemen, but then I have no coverage for the positional players. I'd prefer to have that buffer because I know I need it. Is this bad? Is it cheating?
I save cash, yes, but it costs me in game. Because j-men suck. Is it an unfair trade? Personally I don't think so... but then I'm not actually sure what the ruling about J-men is for outside of possible tournament shenanigans.
(I think I did know what it was for at one point but It's since slipped my mind) |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 20, 2014 - 01:12 |
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The rule's very clear, which makes some of the OP original queries moot.
"Teams in competitive divisions are expected to strive for at least 11 players on the roster. While this doesn't mean that any team below 11 players must immediately hire a new lineman, coaches are expected to not let the team deteriorate on purpose."
What this means is, your team should be trying as an aim, to obtain at least 11 rostered players in competitive divisions (i.e. any CRP division outside of League). Journey Men are not part of your roster.
If you do anything that evidence suggests is in breach of this rule, you run the risk of being picked up on it. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Jan 20, 2014 - 01:22 |
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Oh yes, I understand the rule, I don't understand the intention behind it. And I very much doubt that asking about it is bad in anyway, shape or form  |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jan 20, 2014 - 01:24 |
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Yup, agree with HM here. And, to be honest, the admins have generally been very reasonable about this. Forgetting to hire a single lineman for one game (i.e. clicking ready team without checking numbers) is just a slip, and recognized as such, but systematic abuse is picked up on. I really don't see any problems with current practice. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jan 20, 2014 - 01:26 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Oh yes, I understand the rule, I don't understand the intention behind it. And I very much doubt that asking about it is bad in anyway, shape or form |
Fouly, as far as I understand it (and, let's face it, that is usually not very far  ), it is about not hoarding cash via unfair means. i.e. using J-men to build up large storer of cash that can then be used for tourneys, or simply to keep your team in great condition at higher TV levels. Anyway, that's my understanding. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 20, 2014 - 02:27 |
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@HM, yes, it's 100% fluff for me. 100%. If I want to win a tournament, I'll enter a RRR. And I do that lots. No Journeyman issue there. My goal is to build a fun, fluffy team, and on account of a debate over another coach's blog post I started this thread. I had a question as to whether this fun, fluffy team build was within the letter of the site rules (asked and answered), and it raises a broader question of the actual use of Journeymen as people do it. And yes, it's fun and fluffy. And yes, it's competitive. It's hard to find the intersection of the two, fits that you'd get vitriol for trying. 
It's hard to listen to people accuse you of impropriety precisely because you went out of your way to avoid the appearance of impropriety.  |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Jan 20, 2014 - 02:56 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | I had a question as to whether this fun, fluffy team build was within the letter of the site rules |
Herein lies the crux...
Why would you think to question this?
This is the greater point behind HM's view which I agree with (and HM tend to find ourselves on different sides of most debates):
-Admins don't set guidelines in place because whatever that guideline is is where the majority of the site will move to.
In the end, looking at Painstate's team (since you clearly feel wronged)... the guy gimped his squad for a game. He has a bunch of players with loner who are not cheaper than his alternative.
__Synn |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Jan 20, 2014 - 03:06 |
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On an all-lineman team, taking a journeyman and hiring him after his first game gives you nothing but a disadvantage ingame. Besides that, you safe some cash if this particular guy gets permanently injured, but that's it. And cash isn't really an issue with an 11-players all-lineman team. The past of your team most likely shows that you hire the JMs and don't run your team with a bunch of them voluntarily for several consecutive games.
It would surprise me if you'd run in any trouble with that. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jan 20, 2014 - 03:59 |
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| Synn wrote: | | [Why would you think to question this? |
Because the question came up in a blog discussion and I run a similar team. That's cool.
So, like got any on-pitch guides for using Journeymen? Besides putting one hand behind your back so you don't get dodged. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Jan 20, 2014 - 04:08 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Oh yes, I understand the rule, I don't understand the intention behind it. And I very much doubt that asking about it is bad in anyway, shape or form |
Fouly, as far as I understand it (and, let's face it, that is usually not very far ), it is about not hoarding cash via unfair means. i.e. using J-men to build up large storer of cash that can then be used for tourneys, or simply to keep your team in great condition at higher TV levels. Anyway, that's my understanding. |
Ok, so no worries then. I thought it might impact me in some way. Never mind, carry on! 
Although I still don't get it. |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Jan 20, 2014 - 04:13 |
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Oh look.
It's this thread again.
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jan 20, 2014 - 04:16 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | pythrr wrote: | | Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Oh yes, I understand the rule, I don't understand the intention behind it. And I very much doubt that asking about it is bad in anyway, shape or form |
Fouly, as far as I understand it (and, let's face it, that is usually not very far ), it is about not hoarding cash via unfair means. i.e. using J-men to build up large storer of cash that can then be used for tourneys, or simply to keep your team in great condition at higher TV levels. Anyway, that's my understanding. |
Ok, so no worries then. I thought it might impact me in some way. Never mind, carry on!
Although I still don't get it. |
It's not really there to be gotten.
It's a FUMBBL 'house' rule if you like, part of the general 'code of conduct' for the site.
It addresses a very minor issue by creating a headache for like 0.00000001% of teams.
As with most things, it's best dealt with on a case by case basis, and if the admins tell you you're doing something wrong, just stop doing it. Agreeing or disagreeing is irrelevant. |
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