Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
|
 Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:35 |
 
|
Meh, I say that Christer should just wait for a gap in between tournaments, and implement the Bank house rule (all cash over 150k goes to your TV).
Then wait for the screams from all those 'finely tuned' chaos dwarf coaches whose 1.3k teams are now running at 5.5k TV.  |
_________________
http://www.calculateyour.tv - an easy way to work out specific team builds.
 |
|
cthol
Joined: Nov 10, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:41 |
|
| Frankenstein wrote: |
Nevertheless, your example fails to convince me, as Chaos Dwarf teams can easily hoard tons of cash w/ or w/o journeymen anyway (and do so, as you can see in the respective Blackbox team stats).
| Quote: | | 1. You have 3 guys you don't care about taking LOS hits and not your killers or ball carriers. |
You don't care for these hobs anyway - journeymen or not.
| Quote: | | 2. If the JM gain any SPP's you dont have to worry about leaving the sweet spot as they wont be there next game so your TV is pretty stable. |
This is true for regular hobgoblins as well. Should they really get a skill, either put them on the line to die or replace them if they should really become a burden (the occasional 2 points of TV will rarely matter much).
| Quote: | | Next game you rinse and repeat, all the while building up a large bank. |
So you're building up a large bank, which has been easily accomplished by tons of teams perfectly playing within the rules. Where is the significant difference between the 2 modes of cash hoarding? And what is the problem of a large bank in the first place? As far as I can see, there is no problem at all: There are hundreds (thousands?) of teams with a large bank playing on FUMBBL for years now, if their banks would break the game, the site would probably have already accounted for the "issue" by implementing the original bank rules long ago. Not even the tournament team found it necessary to account for large banks. |
This.
JM doesn't allow hoarding of cash, high AV linemen does. JM allows you to do it slightly quicker, but not a huge amount. And if hoarding cash is such a massive problem, use the bank rules. Maybe change them a bit to allow 200k, or 300, or whatever. Doesn't really matter what the actual number is.
The teams that hoard cash do it irrespective of how many JM they're running.
So I'm still looking for a real exploit that is prevented by the JM rule. |
|
|
easilyamused
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:43 |
|
All valid points but you are misquoting me you sneaky little thing 
| easilyamused wrote: |
Next game you rinse and repeat, all the while building up a large bank.
"That's great" I hear you say, my players are safe and I have money to replace my important players.
This is where the abuse begins. Firstly you aren't adhering to the rules all teams must strive to have 11 permanent players and secondly you are preying on weaker teams knowing that unless the dice swing you are pretty safe. |
Having a large bank is no problem, hoard that gold, get rich, makes blogs with how much gold you have. Enjoy it.
Playing with JM is no problem. Feed them to the wolves, laugh when they get fouled, offer them up as surf bait. Enjoy them.
Having a large bank and still playing with JM? Why? What is the point? What are the benefits?
Want to keep in the sweet spot? Fine. Do it. But do it properly. Min/max if you must with recycling players all you want. But if you insist in min/maxing to maintain your TV then you need to take the risks involved as well. Your players will die. Your treasury is there to cater for that. |
_________________
 |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:44 |
|
| Hitonagashi wrote: | Meh, I say that Christer should just wait for a gap in between tournaments, and implement the Bank house rule (all cash over 150k goes to your TV).
Then wait for the screams from all those 'finely tuned' chaos dwarf coaches whose 1.3k teams are now running at 5.5k TV. |
They are the the teams that least need the money. So they have to spend some time buying & dropping RRs. Big deal when the lower AV teams would be screwed. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
|
easilyamused
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:45 |
|
| koadah wrote: | | easilyamused wrote: | Koadah, I know what you mean but the problem is that this, like may situations, is a very grey area and if Christer put in black and white exactly what was allowed and not allowed people will quickly learn to game the system.
Every case is taken on it's own merits and the staff collectively discuss cases to ensure that we are being fair and consistent in how we deal with these situations.
Put in sports terms, you wouldn't see professional teams running with ringers every game, they buy players and develop them to help them win.
While that is a loose analogy that is the intended spirit of the rules and why the only black and white rule with regards to JM is to strive for 11 permanent players.
Using JM to replace MNG players, not a problem.
Using JM to use as LOS fodder while you have a large treasury and less than 11 players, problem. |
I do understand the concept of grey areas. Just not in this case. 
The guideline that Woodstock posted seems fair enough. But it is buried in the Forums. I am certain that I saw an admin once post that 400k would be alright. That obviously changed a long time ago. But if it changes again who is going to know?
Suppose you don't follow the forums? Do you have to wait until you get the tap on the shoulder from the admins. That is one of your strikes gone. Then make a mistake...
It seems to me that you are encouraging people to play 'safe' races and allowing any chance of diversity to go down the toilet.
The races that are most complained seem to be able to rack up a fortune without even trying.
Go ARR! |
Believe it or not we are actually on the same page here. But putting guidelines into the rules will only end badly.
Rules lawyers will always push boundaries. |
_________________
|
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:50 |
|
| cthol wrote: | | So I'm still looking for a real exploit that is prevented by the JM rule. |
My conclusion: There is none.
The ruling originates from LRB 4 and it is my impression that it is now kept merely for the sake of keeping it.
I can't see any way to exploit journeymen cash hoarding (and haven't been seeking to do so in the first place), even though I'm still in favour of implementing the bank rules (not that my opinion on this would matter even remotely). |
Last edited by Frankenstein on %b %22, %2014 - %13:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 13:52 |
|
| easilyamused wrote: |
Using JM to replace MNG players, not a problem.
Using JM to use as LOS fodder while you have a large treasury and less than 11 players, problem. |
I have basically ignored the previous 10 pages because it does not apply to me or any team I play.
But I will not ignore this because it DIRECTLY effects me.
For one match the Buccaneers had 10 players MNG due to mass firing of players.
It was well know they were MNG because the Buccaneers would hire all the J-men the next match.
The Buccaneers DID NOT and NEVER PLANNED to play with J-men for more than that one match.
Now here is my issue with all of this.
I got this nice PM basically stating that the Buccaneers went beyond the pale on J-man abuse. Any further issues with the Buccaneers and they are RETIRED, DISBANDED and BOOTED FROM FUMBBL FOR ALL TIME.
So as you can see. This discussion does have a very serious effect on my very specific team.
I think it is very obvious I feel the Buccaneers did nothing wrong what so ever and those coaches who cried and moaned in my blog that this was a violation of FUMBBL rules can STUFF IT.
There, I have had my say....good day good sirs. |
_________________
Comish of the:  |
|
easilyamused
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 14:00 |
|
| PainState wrote: | | easilyamused wrote: |
Using JM to replace MNG players, not a problem.
Using JM to use as LOS fodder while you have a large treasury and less than 11 players, problem. |
I have basically ignored the previous 10 pages because it does not apply to me or any team I play.
But I will not ignore this because it DIRECTLY effects me.
For one match the Buccaneers had 10 players MNG due to mass firing of players.
It was well know they were MNG because the Buccaneers would hire all the J-men the next match.
The Buccaneers DID NOT and NEVER PLANNED to play with J-men for more than that one match.
Now here is my issue with all of this.
I got this nice PM basically stating that the Buccaneers went beyond the pale on J-man abuse. Any further issues with the Buccaneers and they are RETIRED, DISBANDED and BOOTED FROM FUMBBL FOR ALL TIME.
So as you can see. This discussion does have a very serious effect on my very specific team.
I think it is very obvious I feel the Buccaneers did nothing wrong what so ever and those coaches who cried and moaned in my blog that this was a violation of FUMBBL rules can STUFF IT.
There, I have had my say....good day good sirs. |
Had you run your idea pass the admins first then this thread would never have happened.
But. Now that you have bought it up.
Have I at any point in the last 11 pages said you planned to play more than 1 match with 10 JM? or abuse the rules?
It's OK I'll wait here while you go check...... |
_________________
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 14:06 |
|
| easilyamused wrote: |
It's OK I'll wait here while you go check...... |
WOWZA!!!! I dont like your worm on your hook that you are trying to bait me into this. This is my fault?
I could go off on a massive rant but I will restrain myself and just move on rebuilding the Buccaneers from the ground up like I planned to.
Good day. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 14:07 |
|
Make it stop...  |
|
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 14:08 |
|
| PainState wrote: | | I got this nice PM basically stating that the Buccaneers went beyond the pale on J-man abuse. Any further issues with the Buccaneers and they are RETIRED, DISBANDED and BOOTED FROM FUMBBL FOR ALL TIME. |
That's just #*!@$%€ 
If I ever were to name the team on FUMBBL which was closest to the spirit of the game or how Blood Bowl was intended to play, then it would have to be the Buccaneers.
There could hardly be a better example to illustrate how dumb that house rule is. |
|
|
Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 14:11 |
|
Done, Ill edit this post later today when I have time or not. For a simple guideline I suggest you read my post on the first page.
If you have issues with this or more questions, you can write it on a piece of paper, put it in a bottle and throw it in the ocean, I will answer as soon as possible! |
|
|
shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 22, 2014 - 21:28 |
|
| PainState wrote: | | For one match the Buccaneers had 10 players MNG due to mass firing of players. |
those players are called "fired", not MNG...there's a pretty big difference between the two...they won't be playing another game with the Buccaneers, so they are no longer "Missing Next Game"...they're now "Missing All Games Because They Were Fired", but MAGBTWF is a horrible abbreviation...
| PainState wrote: | | It was well know they were MNG because the Buccaneers would hire all the J-men the next match. |
ok, so basically as long as it's well known that a coach is going to violate the rules by firing the entire team, and playing with JM, then it's alright?...we should just ignore the rules because it was public knowledge this was going to happen?
| PainState wrote: | | The Buccaneers DID NOT and NEVER PLANNED to play with J-men for more than that one match. |
oh, well since you only planned on violating the rules for one game, i guess this is a moot point...gotcha...
| PainState wrote: | | I got this nice PM basically stating that the Buccaneers went beyond the pale on J-man abuse. Any further issues with the Buccaneers and they are RETIRED, DISBANDED and BOOTED FROM FUMBBL FOR ALL TIME. |
while i haven't seen the PM you received, if the admin who made the notes on your coach log sent it, i highly doubt they were as boisterous and melodramatic as you're making it out to be...i would wager you received a message stating that you are in violation of the rules, and any further issues would result in your team being retired...any exaggeration and melodrama, i am assuming, is entirely injected by you, and you alone...
| PainState wrote: | | I think it is very obvious I feel the Buccaneers did nothing wrong what so ever... |
it always amuses me that high-profile rules violations, like these, always come with the inevitable screaming of "I FEEL I DID NOTHING WRONG!!!!"...
well of course you feel that way...
to be clear, we've already spoken to you before, in Feb 2012, about journeyman abuse...not to mention, you are a well-known coach on this site, and you are well aware of the drama that has happened here in the past....so it's a safe assumption that you are well aware of journeyman exploitation rules, even if you haven't had a chat with admins in the past about it...
listen, just because you have supporters, doesn't mean that you didn't violate the rules...just because you are a high-profile coach, doesn't mean you didn't violate the rules...just because you have a high-profile team, doesn't mean you didn't violate the rules...
and more importantly, and this is the key point...
just because of those things, doesn't mean you are above the rules...
| PainState wrote: | | ...and those coaches who cried and moaned in my blog that this was a violation of FUMBBL rules can STUFF IT. |
what about those admins who pointed out that this is a violation of FUMBBL rules?...are we to "STUFF IT" as well? or is that just reserved for coaches who (rightly) pointed out that you violated the rules?
--j |
_________________
| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
  |
|
|
|
| |
Gnomes are trash
Search
