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Poll
What should Treeguard take next?
Block
40%
 40%  [ 4 ]
Wrestle
40%
 40%  [ 4 ]
Another skill, please specify below
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 10


El_Jairo



Joined: Jun 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 30, 2015 - 22:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi you guys, I tried the BBM-tool and can give you a link to the team
I want you opinion on the last player on the roster.

He has already got Dodge, and now rolled 10, ok I'm not taking the stat as I can use Block or Wrestle that much better.

At first I thought I would give each liner Wrodge but My next game is vs beaten up elves, and they only have 2 skilled lineman, -ST +AG WD and a Frenzy WD.
So this got me thinking that Block might be a better option, to have someone on the LoS with block, other than a WD.
On the other hand I still lack Strip Ball and Wrodge is a good alternative to try to take down the ball carrier. Or is it worth waiting? I presume my WD should get at least a TD in for the skill.

Note that this team plays only scheduled and has 4 regular matches left.

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C3I2



Joined: Feb 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 30, 2015 - 22:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Depends on who you play, generally speaking I'd say Wrestle guys live a bit longer on the line (the other side keeps blocking until you go down normally) Wrestle, Dodge, Sidestep, Fend or some combo of that. I would normally go dodge on everyone, see if I rolled a stat or double first or second. But I could see my self do wrestle first (I do for rookies on high teams).
Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 01:21 Reply with quote Back to top

With a few exceptions (for example, Slann), Blodge for offense, Wrodge for defense, remembering that Wrodge is more vulnerable to Fouls, if that's a concern.

But to start, Block is handier than Wrestle, so... Block. (And, as a rule, you'll never be sorry with Blodge.)

Once you have 5 (St 3) Blockers, then get some Wrestle for the Defensive LoS.

(And get some real skills on those Tacklers asap, something that will keep them alive. Block if you want them on offense, Wrestle if you want them as Sweepers, and Dodge if you want to maximize maneuveability (and scoring).)

(Am I correct in reading that "star" as your # of RR's, 5?! Dump 1 now, and another later - 3 RR is all a developed Elf team needs unless you're in a League w/ Tackle spam teams.)

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C3I2



Joined: Feb 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 01:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, obviously you'd want 3+1 block, to hit rookies on the line with when your oppo kicks.
xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 01:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
(Am I correct in reading that "star" as your # of RR's, 5?! Dump 1 now, and another later - 3 RR is all a developed Elf team needs unless you're in a League w/ Tackle spam teams.)


I believe the star is Fan Factor, and the dice symbol is rerolls. In this case, 2.

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Ah, I didn't make that out as a dice symbol, but that makes more sense, thx.

In that case, 2 RR is a little on the bold side for an undeveloped* team, but if you can stay disciplined (and don't have bad luck, ahem) it might be enough.

(* Only 4 1/2 blockers/wrestlers (inc. this one and the St 2), and only 4 Dodgers, w/ only 3 of those as Blodgers)

C3I2 wrote:
Well, obviously you'd want 3+1 block, to hit rookies on the line with when your oppo kicks.

I like to recommend 5 Blockers before any Wrestlers: 3 to get the 3 LoS blocks, minimum, plus 2 more for 1) a Blitzer on either side of the field, and/or b) an extra block on a key LoS target, and/or iii) a spare if you lose one.

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Last edited by Smeat on Mar 31, 2015 - 01:51; edited 1 time in total
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 01:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I think its 5 ff and 2 rr Smile

WE dont need that many wrestlers, keeping players upright is quite important for them. Max 2-3 and the rest block. It doesnt really matter what order you take them in.

Oh, and sack the -ma WD asap.
Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 01:54 Reply with quote Back to top

uzkulak wrote:
It doesnt really matter what order you take them in.

Um... wrong.

A cage or screen w/ a Wrodger is weaker there than a cage w/ a Blocker (and by more than 1/9). Having that player hit the ground on a Both-Down opens things up far more than if he's still standing.

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gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 02:00 Reply with quote Back to top

imho, Side Step

Since one of your War Dancers is a hitter/surf threat, the dodge will give him enough mobility to lock down a sideline and/or assist for surfing fun.

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Fortis



Joined: Mar 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 02:01 Reply with quote Back to top

I actually think highly developed wood elves are better off with wrestle guys than most teams, but you don't need all of your linemen with wrestle. You don't have any block other than the dancers (who are typically not on offensive LOS punching duty) so get some block. With my woodies I like to have my linemen as 3 block, the rest wrestle. I also prefer block/wrester before dodge on most of them. The wrestlers get some tackle as a second skill, the blockers and the rest of the wrestlers get dodge. One guy gets kick first then block. Guards get block. But anyway, that's more for longer term builds. And it's kind of irrelevant because linemen get killed fast.

I wouldn't worry too much about not having strip, you don't want it on a lineman anyway, just give it to the dancer next. It's not great in the wood elf mirror match anyway.

I'd be pretty tempted to buy the third reroll or a substitute.
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 02:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
uzkulak wrote:
It doesnt really matter what order you take them in.

Um... wrong.

A cage or screen w/ a Wrodger is weaker there than a cage w/ a Blocker (and by more than 1/9). Having that player hit the ground on a Both-Down opens things up far more than if he's still standing.


The point of wrestle is to help break into the opponents offensve space and take down the ball carrier, WE should use it as an offensive skill. The whole purpose of the team is they find it easier than anyone else to get the ball loose and then use it effectively. Play to your strengths, dont use a passive defence with WE!!!!

On offence, if WE are relying on cages and trying to grind they have probably already lost... It is speed and spreading the play that works best. High energy, high intensity and dont give your opponent the chance to get set.

Anyway, I stand by what I said before. Mostly block, some wrestle and try to keep a balance at all times.
Fortis



Joined: Mar 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 03:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
The point of wrestle is to help break into the opponents offensve space and take down the ball carrier, WE should use it as an offensive skill. The whole purpose of the team is they find it easier than anyone else to get the ball loose and then use it effectively. Play to your strengths, dont use it a passive defence with WE!!!!

How many times per turn do you get to blitz. Yes you should try to pop when you can with a strip dancer or a wrackler if they are sure hands, but you don't achieve that with mass wrestle. Mass wrestle is good with wood elves on defence because you have a movement advantage, you use them on the los to reduce casualties and in the way of the cage to block up space. Using wrestle in your turn against anything but a ball carrier is awful because the other guy gets up and walks off first. You can have enough wrestle for that with 1-2 guys.
Rat_Salat



Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 04:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Block or Wrestle.

I'd go with block personally, but neither is wrong.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 04:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Fortis wrote:
Using wrestle in your turn against anything but a ball carrier is awful because the other guy gets up and walks off first.


That said, it can open holes in cages and defensive screens where Block (against say a Dwarf, Orc BLitzers/ developed Balck Orcs, etc) would leave you both standing there on a Both Down.

Also makes Dwarf/ Block havey lines think twice about spamming hits if there is the possibility their Both Down Result will leave their player down on Def (as already mentioned).

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Fortis



Joined: Mar 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 04:50 Reply with quote Back to top

You shouldn't be building your defensive screen on the basis that none of them will get hit anyway. To break it should require a hit and a bunch of dodges. Saying wrestle is bad because you fall down in your screen position is like saying that dodge is bad because a tackle guy can break your screen.
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