Aussiown
Joined: May 22, 2008
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 Posted:
Aug 10, 2015 - 12:07 |
 
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When re-rolling with Pro and the Pro roll fails the client doesn't give you the option to re-roll the Pro roll as per the CRP. |
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MDeLarge
Joined: Aug 07, 2013
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Aug 10, 2015 - 12:10 |
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Because you can't reroll twice. There is no bug, mate |
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tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
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Aug 10, 2015 - 12:31 |
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MDeLarge
Joined: Aug 07, 2013
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Aug 10, 2015 - 12:38 |
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Sorry, didn't read properly, thought he was talking about rerolling the fail, not the 4+ roll. |
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paradocks
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Aug 10, 2015 - 12:50 |
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Are there really many situations when it would make sense to do this? I tend to think if this was implemented as per CRP it would just slow down the game for no real point. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Aug 10, 2015 - 12:55 |
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I've seen it done in Table Top. Not sure if it was good coaching but I've seen it done.  |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Aug 10, 2015 - 14:20 |
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I guess if the original (failed) roll was important enough to use a team RR, one would usually [fixed] use it directly [/fixed]. Trying to use Pro first and re-rolling the Pro roll if necessary decreases your overall odds for that particular action by roughly 3 to 6% (depending on the odds of the original roll). Then again, Pro provides the chance to save you a team RR.
I played around a bit with the Samba Action Calculator and found this: If your Pro player does an 3+ action and another player without in-built RRs (like Pro, Catch or Dodge) has to take two 2+ actions afterwards, overall odds are increasing by roughly 1% if you use Pro first on that failed 3+ action. This is not the case if the second player has to succeed in only one 2+ action.
So, while it's probably hard to figure out where the threshold lies, there are situations where the attempt to save a team RRR by using Pro first (and therefor accepting a higher risk to fail that first action) increases the overall odds.
Of course, as always, the crucial question is: "If I fail this (first) upcoming roll, where do I stand?" If for example the first roll is necessary to put several players into better positions and the whole sequence of rolls is not your only chance, it's most likely more sensible to forgo Pro and use that team RR (which of course is then also lost for the rest of the half).
Interesting topic. Too bad it's only hypothetical when it comes to the client. |
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Last edited by Rabe on %b %10, %2015 - %21:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
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Aug 10, 2015 - 14:51 |
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Well the only useful scenario to use Pro before TRR when failure is critical, is when you are using Big guy (loner), because you rather use Pro before going to team rerolls, that have same chance of failure if you had done the TRR. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Aug 10, 2015 - 16:10 |
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Yeah that was also the case in my aforementioned TT situation. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Aug 10, 2015 - 21:02 |
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I guess I phrased my first sentence badly, should read correctly now.  |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Aug 10, 2015 - 23:58 |
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Well, I haven't calculated yet, but if it is the same chance to succeed with pro first than reroll pro roll as compared to plain team reroll, then I would try and save the team reroll and try with pro first, as I would have 50% chance to save that team reroll. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Aug 11, 2015 - 00:14 |
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You cannot increase or even keep the odds for a single action when using Pro (accept on players with Loner), I'd say. Because there's always the chance to not be able to use neither Pro nor team RR on this particular action if you go down this road. Must be worse than trying to re-roll directly. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Aug 11, 2015 - 00:21 |
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Lets assume a scenario. If you could prove the theory here, I concede. I did not calculate it, so you may break it. Just curious. So:
Wardancer with Dauntless takes a leap against a str4 carrier which had a potential to be a 1d block if dauntless works.
When is it best to use the pro first, and team reroll first to maximize the chance? Failed leap? Failed dauntless?
My instinct tells me that it is probably best use the pro first anyway, at the first roll (unless that is the block roll to sack the ball), as that potentially saved team reroll would actually increase the overall success. (success = sack) |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Aug 11, 2015 - 01:49 |
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Well, use the Action Calculator I linked in my first reply to calculate the odds.
I agree, in such a scenario it could be useful. See my example earlier: All it needs to improve the overall odds by using Pro first is a 3+ (with the option of using Pro) followed by two 2+ rolls (made by another played who doesn't have Pro.
I thought you were talking about a single roll, not a sequence. Misunderstanding. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Aug 11, 2015 - 05:37 |
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| Rabe wrote: | Well, use the Action Calculator I linked in my first reply to calculate the odds.
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I think the question is too complex for the action calculator since you have to account for different modes of a block action (-2d) and (1d) and Dauntless isn't really part of the package either...
But am too buisy to do it right now by hand  ... maybe later if this still is popping up.
My gut feeling would rather tell me to do the opposite tho: I have a critical action, the leap, on top of it on an av7 wardancer I really don't wanna lose vs a Dauntless roll, a roll perfectly suitable for the pro skill because I don't even need to succeed at it to begin with... But then I'm usually not hellbent on rolling pows either.. |
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