harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 05:59 |
 
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They're AG 3 though. I'm actually starting to like this roster a bit more now. I think the Diestro positional is about there. I'd change the name to a matador though. Everybody knows what they are. The only place I've seen diestro is yours and Garion's list.
Needs a Vega style star player. Maybe linos could be Conquistadors? Or the other positional?
Imagery
There's some cool imagery to go with this concept. I'm not sure what they did with the fanbased warhammer rulebook. You'd have to read that as well. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:36 |
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This projects kind of intrigued me a bit, so I'm perusing what they did with the Warhammer list. Right at the start they have:
"The soliders of Estalia are tirelessly drilled in the image of Goddess Myrmidia the patron of war and wisdom whom they worship above all else. When the Estalians go to war, they do so under her banner, marching tirelessly with unmatched discipline.
The Estalian army is filled with well trained soldiers....."
Immediately this is in direct contrast to the lack of discipline in the 2 lists (Garion & the OPs). Did you base your list off of Garions? If you didn't, I'm wondering why you bot came up with the lack of discipline. Certainly 16th century Spain doesn't strike me as being extremely ill-disciplined. I do like Garion's animosity thing...........but maybe it's not for this list. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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AFAIK Animosity only works between players of different races, which is why I think the OP said that he decided against it. In Garion's list it by RAW does nothing, unless you modify the skill (which he suggests).
The lack of cohesion thing seems to be based on fluff about Estalian in-fighting. As me and Matt pointed out with the re-roll cost it likely isn't any worse than the in-fighting Orcs suffer, so I'd just go with 60k re-rolls and leave it at that.
The Diestro's are now very similar to my preferred/suggested Human catcher change. I like them though, I think it'd make a fun roster. I think I'd still swap Thick Skull for an AV though on the Guards. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 10:03 |
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Garion pointed out that animosity will work with the client. If you're playing on TT, then it'll work how you decided it'll work.
Yeah, I understand the fluff of 'Estalian infighting' but where did it come from? Did Garion and Pablets invent this, or is there a source?
As I said, you need to check all the resources available to you before doing a roster like this. I don't know too much about them, however there were some bits in 2nd ed, DoW and a fanbased Estalian pdf for warhammer. You'd also need to search for anything else, there maybe some WFRP bits here and there.
I'm just having doubts from the bits I've looked at today as to whether they are indeed undisciplined. And 'in fighting' would most certainly be a Border Prince theme. I think the animosity theme would suit them better.
I believe........I also aired my doubts about the RR price right at the start of the thread. |
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cowhead
Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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Apr 19, 2016 - 10:58 |
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That's what I've sort of gone for with my Border Prince themed team in my College FUMMBL League. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:04 |
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I was looking at your Asian themed stuff in your gallery yesterday (actually I was looking for longbeards coloured differently). There's some beautiful stuff there and some great ideas!! |
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cowhead
Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:07 |
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Thanks, I made them for College FUMBBL RoW edition.
I'm particularly happy with how some of those icons came out. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I think the in-fighting fits well with a Border Princes theme, and a Tilean one. I read a lot of fluff for Tilea when running Grind, but I've never read much on Estalia so couldn't say where that comes from.
And yes, cowhead's icons are wonderful  |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:32 |
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Well Tilean's run mix race.aka dogs of war, so they get it automatically. Border Princes are a rough, badly run, hole in the Old World and is more of the theme being described.
From what I'm getting and looking back at Spanish history that Estalia portrays......I'm not seeing the ill-discipline thing.
But Patlab and Garion both have it and Diestro. Did Pablets get it from Garion? If so did Garion make it up or get it from somewhere. If he didn't copy Garion, is it a coincidence or is this actually from something?
That needs to be ascertained before (I guess 'I' and up to you guys on 'we') believe it to be canon or not. As I said, cover as many sources as you possibly can before evaluating what a roster should be. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:38 |
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Another source for Estalian stuff is the old Zaragoz novel. And wikipedia's article on Estalia also includes mentions of both intense rivalry between Estalian cities and Diestros, though without listing any sources.
Lexicanum also mentions both points, and provides references:
Warhammer Rulebook (6th Edition), pg. 166
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (1st Edition), Needs Citation
Warhammer Fantasy Battle (3rd edition) (1991), pg. 201 |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 11:47 |
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Ahhhhh I have those novels..........is it the series told by the Bard?
I also have all the books you listed..........but they'll have to wait until I'm back in the UK, which will be late July early August. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Apr 19, 2016 - 12:05 |
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Yeah, that's the one, part one of the Orfeo trilogy, followed by Plague Daemon and Storm Warriors.
Just checked, the 3rd edition book does say that Estalia isn't united under a single ruler (like the Empire or Brettonia) but is made up of kingdoms of various sizes, and that the cities war amongst each others.
WFRP (p277) has about half a page covering a general description, details of the two main cities, and again, mentions of infighting between the cities.
Neither mentions Diestros, but the 6th ed rulebook may, I don't have that one to check. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 19, 2016 - 12:11 |
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Magritta is Madrid and Bilballi is Barcelona. I guess it's playing on the Spaniards, Catalans and Basque rivalries. I'm still not sure it's enough to say they're ill disciplined compared to their neighbours.
I know there is at least 1 unit type in the Old World lists in Warhammer Armies.......but probably like Bretonnians it'll be a bit of a mouthful and hard to assimilate.
Spain has some classic character types. Matador, Picador, Conquistador, Spanish Inquisition.....all with fantastic looks. I'll be honest I have no ****ing idea what a Diestro is, never heard the term before Garion's list (probably have but it's never registered). It'd be a shame to lose some classic troup types to something that has no meaning to most players.
The Matador particularly would fit the roll of the Diestro perfectly. Dodge and SS, waving his cape at the charging minotaur!
I think there's at least 1 unit of Legends of Renown (I should have the boxsets at home) probably 2 or 3. Pizzaro's lost legion I believe is Estalian. There must also be some fluff from the New World, particularly the Lizardman books and all the stuff done on Vampire Coast.
Then there is this very lengthy fanbased Estalian army book, which although a little amateurish is very well put together. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Well Google tells me that Diestro is Spanish for Bullfighter, so it is a Matador  |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Apr 19, 2016 - 12:25 |
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Google also tells us (if you use the 'translate this page' option on a Spanish language dictionary result) that diestro can mean right-handed (cf sinister/dexter), matador, and skillful or dextrous.
To be honest though, it mostly makes me think of Destro from Action Force (GI Joe to our colonial friends). And I like that, I can imagine players with shiny metal heads like his. |
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